GernBlansten

I was always told, 1 year for online, 3 years for class. My card says 3 years. I was also told they are phasing out the class and coming out with a DVD only. Don't know how long that will be good for.

This is really sad. I'm hearing excuses from folks who I thought you would never hear such things... "Its just a prank" (Great, lets blame the victims) "In some states, age of consent is 16" (Depends on the definition of IS is) "There's a secret society of gays behind this" (Opus Gay?) "I told my boss and thought he was taking care of it" (The buck stops where?) "The democRATs knew about!" (Look! Over there!) and the ever popular but ageless "Clinton did it too!" (My personal favorite) So much for the party of personal responsibility and morality. Foley is toast. I hope they prosecute him using the same laws he championed. Anyone who suppressed information that kept these kids in danger of this predator for even 1 hour because they were putting party over responsibility should resign immediately. I don't know how they sleep at night. For that matter, I don't know how any of these apologists sleep either.

Beatles

Brent, you really need to broaden your news sources beyond Dr. Dobson's radio broadcasts and FoxNews. The most salacious IMs between Foley and one of his victims were the ones where Foley is masturbating before a house vote and IMing a page. Since to be an active page, you must be high school-er. Careful deduction allows one to conclude that page is 16 years old. About the same age as several Life scouts and a couple of Eagles in my troop. Now what would you think of your Committee Chairman if one ASM told him another ASM was a bit too "friendly" with a scout? What if that occurred months if not years ago and the ASM is still around. Then all the sudden it was revealed that the "friendliness" when way beyond that. Would you want the CC to resign? How about the other ASMs who allowed it go on even after they knew it? How about change out the entire committee and leadership? Or would you blame it on the ACLU because that's exactly what they would like to embarrass the BSA and further their agenda?

Here's an idea if you don't like tent floors. I just purchased a Mountain Hardware Kiva http://www.mountainhardwear.com/Product.aspx?top=3&prod=661&cat=47&viewAll=False It has no floor, yet is a four season, four person tent that weighs about 6 lbs. Retails at $220, but I found it for $150. I bought it for winter camping and as an emergency shelter for backcountry skiing. Extremely simple to setup. My son took it on a backpack trip last weekend and it performed admirably. Said it was as warm as our North Face VE-25. Got down below freezing. He used a ground cloth a bit smaller than the tent and didn't worry about taking his boots off in the tent. Hosed the ground cloth off when he got home. The really neat thing about this tent for troops is that it uses a single pole and is really big for the pack size and weight. The negative thing is it has no netting so bugs and ground critters might get in. Perfect for snow conditions, not so good for Texas me thinks.

Gonzo, the page program is for high school kids (mostly Juniors). I believe minimum age is 15. Very, very doubtful that a 18 - 19 year old was involved. This involved a predator and a child. Much much different than Condit, Hart or Clinton. ALso, if I remember correctly, I believe we had wall to wall coverage in 1998 of the Lewinski scandal. In fact, that is one of the criticisms of Clinton that he was distracted by all the coverage.

Unfortunately Brent, Our subsequent actions/responses to the attacks have created generations of terrorists enraged at the US for much more than the original bases in Saudi Arabia. Not only have we enraged our enemies, we have alienated our allies. I'm afraid all the precautions we now take to protect ourselves are permanent.

Ok Brent, I'll play. You agree that OBL stated that the reason for the attacks was because of our presence in Saudi Arabia. After the attacks, we closed those bases. We haven't been attacked since. A reasonable person could draw a conclusion that there is a relationship there.

Why were they hating us, from '93 to 2001? Well Brent, I think we should go to the source. Osama said after 9-11 that all those attacks were in retaliation to the US having bases in Saudi Arabia. After 9-11, we quietly closed those bases.

Hmmmm. Clinton did it with a 22 year old. Foley did it with a 16 year old (probably many more). Think about a Scoutmaster (54 year old) sending sexually suggestive messages to a Life scout (16 year old). That is the reality of this situation. How many of you would be comfortable if the media covered that case as one between two consenting adults?

I forgot about the night driving restriction. My bad. How do troops in northern lattitudes deal with this in the winter months? Suspend outtings?

G2SS does say 10 hours. We have an ongoing debate in our committee on how to interpret that though. Does a day trip that requires a 2 hour drive to the event, 6.5 hours at the event and a 2 hour return trip violate the 10 hour rule? If so, every ski trip our troop makes is in violation. Or is it 10 hours consecutive driving? Or cumulative drive time in a 24 hour period? What's the required down time between driving sessions? When is the clock reset? Midnight? Can I put in 6 hours one evening, pull over for 3 hours shut eye at a campground or reststop and put in another 8 hours the next morning? Many questions. Having driven cross country several times towing boats, I know why the 10 hour rule is a good one. We just need clarification on how to impliment it.

"All we are saying, is give peace a chance" Seems to have more meaning today, doesn't it?

I guess Ann is just trying to do her part to win the hearts and minds of her enemies. Hot? I can't get past the Adam's Apple.

Ann lost me when she advocated converting all Muslims to Christianity and killing their leaders.

LDS units will allow non-LDS scouts to join. They do however have to comply with all the LDS tweeks to the program. I doubt a non-LDS adult could be a leader in any LDS unit though.

I think its just the influence of now having female leadership. They are just so much smarter at things like this.

Thanks. I figured it would be OK if one of us CPR certified adults did the instruction. Just didn't want to give the council folk a heart attack if we did it.

Is there an official standing on who can teach scouts CPR for rank advancement? Do you need to bring in a CPR Instructor? Most of our adult leadership is CPR certified and our troop has a Resisi Annie. Although I know being CPR certified doesn't make you an expert, do you think its enough?

A scout is thrifty. He helps pay his own way. How does selling overpriced, substandard popcorn to subsidize a program that clearly is marketed below actual costs meet that law? Price the product (the program) at what it really costs. Give the scouts local opportunities to raise the cost of membership themselves. From what I'm reading, the definition should really read: A scout is thrifty. He helps pay for every scout who doesn't sell popcorn because council membership prices don't cover the costs involved in providing the scouting program.

I'm just tired of having children go out and fund these organizations, whether it be high school sports, BSA, GSA, or the local drama club. Councils need to charge the participants the cost of the program. If they need more money, raise membership costs. For those scouts who can't afford the costs, offer opportunities for them to work it off (limited fund raising) or camperships (of which is rolled back into the overall cost of the program). As for the $10 box of sub-standard popcorn (compared to Orvilles), Orvilles sells for $3.00. Markup at the grocery store is around 5% so wholesale cost is $2.85. In that cost is advertising, promotion, distribution, packaging, manufacturing and spoilage. BSA popcorn has little advertising, little promotion and limited distribution costs. Wholesale cost is probably closer to $1.50. BTW, Sam's Club sells 50 lbs bags of Pop Secret for $11.

Yes, we have an active HA program. Every year and they are well attended by these guys. These scouts (some eagles) are offered leadership positions such as instructor or guide and of course they could always run for SPL and ASPL. Some take us up on it. Most of the older scouts just aren't interested in attending meetings. They are active in the venture crew and still maintain membership with us. But Venture only meets monthly. They simply lose interest in associating with 11 and 12 year olds.

Brent, sounds like you have the meeting secret cracked. Would you be so kind as to post next months agenda? I'd just like to see what a great meeting schedule looks like. BTW, at our roundtable, the troops who proclaim great meetings are really adult lead meetings. The rest of us who are really trying to be boy lead pretty much have the same issues, boring meetings.

I have contacted other troops, especially those with "successful" programs. Those with entertaining meetings are pretty much adult lead troops. Adults plan the meetings, set the program, arrange the speakers, but let the boys run it. That in my mind is adult lead. I've also noticed that the PLC likes it when the adults do all the heavy work. This year, we have sat back, only asking leading questions, letting (making) them fill in the cracks. They don't like that so much. Too much work. I agree with OGE, its a tight rope. Too much adult and you become a pack. Too little adult and you have anarchy. We are still wavering wildly trying to find our equilibrium.

Number one complaint at BORs from our scouts is boring meetings. Boys plan our meetings, boys schedule our meetings, boys hold our meetings. Adults (SM, ASMs) just make sure they are appropriate. When we hear the complaints, we ask the boys what they would like instead. They have no solutions or recommendations. Perhaps its just a learning experience for them. Hold boring meetings, learn to spice them up. Still waiting for the spice.