GernBlansten

On a recent vacation to the British Virgin Islands last year, I was shocked that the yacht charter company told me that it was legal and proper to discharge the head overboard, just do it in the channel, not the anchorage. He then went on that us Yanks are just so wrapped up in our poop to deal with it realistically. He told me I'd be charged handsomely if I returned the yacht full of poop. Now in US waters, I beleive the only legal discharge is 3 miles offshore. On a trip to Catalina, the park service had us put a dye tablet in the sewage hold to verify we weren't leaking or discharging at the anchorage.

In my troop, I've been assigned the task to work all the Eagle stuff for our boys. I've successfully worked 6 Eagles in the past 12 months. Each of them, I have the scout verify their merit badges with our unit advancement coordinator and work out any problems. When they are ready, I have them fill out the Eagle application. I then take that application to district and have the clerk verify the badges in their computer system. That gives us the district/council signature on the application. After that, I organize the EBOR with the district rep and a board of our peers.

Heck, kb6jra! Our EBORs are chaired by the District Eagle Advancement representative, assigned by district who also approve the Eagle project. EBOR members are assigned by the unit.

I would hope that if there were any changes to the program, that BSA would not do so in the vacuum of its own professionals and volunteers. A national survey should be conducted of non-BSA affiliated adults and children to find out what those who are not in the program might find of value.

Boy, this thread has really gone down the toilet. Eagerly watching the side web ads to see what comes up, llama, llama, poop.

I guess it would depend on the environment. Some environments can't deal with cat-holes well (i.e. thin topsoil layer, conditions that inhibit the breakdown like permanent snow or desert conditions). In other environments, the shear number of human visitors would saturate an area. Read about the current conditions at base camp of Denali/Everest for examples. It rivals the sewage conditions of third world nations. As far as our poop vs. animal poop...we are just visitors to their home. It is rude to spread our poop around our host's house. Just remember how you feel when that stray dog comes and leaves a present on your lawn. In reality though, there are very few instances where you have to pack out your poop. In those cases, there are efficient and sanitary methods to handle it.

I had a real wakeup call about 15 years ago concerning liability, lawyers and insurance. This was BC(before children). I was Commodore of our local yacht club. NFP organization with membership in US Sailing for liability insurance. Similar relationship of a CO to BSA. US Sailing gave us guidelines to run sailboat races and training, but coverage was not a condition of following those rules. Well, we were out having our weekly evening race with about 30 boats. A clear air microburst formed on one end of the lake and started moving toward the fleet. Knocking the boats over like bowling pins. Wind was estimated at over 70 knots sustained. Those of us at the far end had enough time to drop our sails but still got knocked over. The burst lasted about 30 minutes while we just tried to keep the boats floating and off the rocks. After the storm, we returned to the marina to find out one of our boats had lost her crew and two souls were missing. A search and rescue was initiated. They were found the next morning by a recovery team. Needless to say, we immediately contacted US Sailing about the accident. They assigned a lawyer who interviewed each of us officers. Most questions pertained to whether we followed US Sailing recommendations on running races. I asked the lawyer why? He responded that those guidelines are designed to convince a judge/jury that due diligence was followed. It won't keep someone from suing, but its easier to convince a judge/jury if you are following some set of rules. About 3 months later, the family of the lost sailors sued our club, the park service and US Sailing. Once the family realized our club had no assets and our NFP status absolved us officers from liability, they dropped us from the suit. US Sailing was able to have the case dismissed, primarily because we had followed their guidelines. Not sure how the park service faired. They really had no role in the accident.

We are still dealing with the 5 feet of snow we got around Christmas. Global warming or not, something ain't right.

SoDak said, "National Weather Service had issued warnings and advisories not to be out in the weather unless it was absolutly necessary." Camping is absolutly necessary. Sorry, I couldn't resist.

Last year, our Klondoree reached the aforementioned temps. Luckily no wind, wind increases the misery index. -8 F in the morning but got up to a balmy 10 by noon. It met the fore-casted weather, very cold all weekend. I hoped and prayed that district would cancel the event. That would have made it easy for us leaders. But they didn't. We dreaded. We Packed. Put in some extra gear and just sucked it up and dealt with it. It would have been well within our right and in some parents minds, sanity, to just cancel our attendance. Some units did. But we persevered. The boys loved it. Bragging rights I guess. Us leaders survived. Got the Polar Bear patch too. Afterwards, I and the boys would have been disappointed if district cancelled it. Some may say -10 degrees is too dangerous. It is if you aren't prepared. But so is +25F if you don't plan for it.

Sleeping under the stars is just that. Nothing between your nose and the sky (personally one of my favorite summer campouts). . Let the dew/frost settle where it mayA fly, lean to, umbrella, tarp or canopy is a tent by any other name. Yes, camping should be done with the troop and if your program doesn't have at least 20 nights camping a year on the calendar, you really need to do some better planning.

Three dislikes. Material is chaffing/fraying where my backpack belt rubs on my hips. The integrated belt is doesn't lay well in the sleeve. The cuffs need velcro to cinch them up around your boot. Other than that, I love them. Scouts that have them actually wear them.

Motives. If you have a child in the program, the motivation for you to become a leader is self evident and pure. If you were a child in the program, and even though you don't have children, but want to help, your motivation is pure. If you have no children and were never in the program as a youth, we must suspect your motivations. They may be pure, they may not. If eyebrows are not raised, you are naive.

What do we teach our boys? We teach our boys the Outdoor Code and LNT. We teach our boys that when they go out on public land, that they leave no trace of their exploration. Sometimes, they find out that others don't do that. In that case, they leave a trace. They clean up after others. Swatting mosquitoes or accidentally stepping on a bug are not violations of LNT. Seeking out bugs to stomp is. Spraying insecticide around your campsite is. Changing the environment to suit your needs is. Ugly trees, ugly bugs, ugly reptiles, uneven campsites are not excuses to violate LNT. Those who can't see the fine line, perhaps should stay home.

In my family, nobody got divorced, no aunt/uncle, cousin, grandparent, parent. Nobody in my family tree. Large mid-western farming family. My brother is the only Eagle scout in that tree. He recently divorced breaking the winning streak. Not sure if there's a correlation there. As for the single scouter, it wouldn't raise an eyebrow to me if the scouter had a strong relationship with scouting as a youth and wanted to give back to the program. It would raise both eyebrows if he didn't. The latter case wouldn't disqualify him, but a bit extra vigilance would be appropriate.

Gotta disagree there FS. 4. Leave What You Find You found a live tree, you left a dead tree. It could one of a million trees in the forest, but that tree is now gone forever. 6. Respect Wildlife Wildlife use trees for food, protection and nesting. Removing their habitat is not respecting them. 7. Be Considerate of Other Visitors I happen to like trees. Removing a tree diminishes my enjoyment of it forever. Now of course we are talking public land here, LNT is an ethics program for public land use. If this is on private land with permission from the owner it would be acceptable.

Gotcha. The ol' flint and steel trick. Gets em' every time.

Sounds like a great idea. What are "hot sparks?"

I was not involved in cub scouts at all. My son joined cubs as a webs 1. When it came time to cross over, we just went with the crowd, didn't even check out other troops. Our local troop folded the year before we crossed. Most in our area went to a troop 20 miles away. We followed. I didn't realize you were supposed to visit many troops and choose the one that best fits your needs. I guess we were lucky, my son likes the troop he is in. We are a heavily LDS area and at least half of the troops are LDS and don't recruit. The other non-LDS troops don't do district activities so I rarely get to interact with their leaders. Our troop seems to be the only one in the area that is actively recruiting. We are getting cubs from 4 different packs and its getting out of hand. I guess that's how giant troops are born. If I only knew what I know now, I would have visited every troop in town before crossing over the one were are in.

I'm not familiar with the Paul Bunyan award, but if felling trees is a requirement for it, it would seem to be in direct violation of Leave No Trace.

Just got back from our weekly meeting. This thread is spot on with my discussions with our CC and SM tonight. We had been a smallish troop 20 scouts but maybe 10 really actives for the past few years. We did an aggressive recruiting drive and got 22 new scouts last year. we are getting another 25 this year. I'm seeing a lot what Lisabob mentions. The things I liked about our troop are changing. It is becoming a real challenge to organize any campout. It is becoming a huge task to keep on top of advancement. Scouts are getting lost in the crowd. Some parents complain about the chaos. We are really, really trying to be boy led which feeds the chaos. It was easier when we had a smaller troop. Growing pains I know. I've got perhaps another 3 years with the troop if my son doesn't lose interest. It'll be fun to watch it morph. If you can call that fun. But on the plus side, I can now see the patrol method working and necessary. Patrol method is really silly when you have the same 8 scouts camping out from 3 patrols and have them camp/cook as patrols. But now we have 25 to 30 from 4 patrols. It's starting to come together.

Oh the dilemma! I bought my trek boots last fall and already have many miles on them. But my 14 Yr-old son is gaining a shoe size every moon phase. Our trek starts July 1st. I think we will wait until early April before we buy his trek boots. Then hope our estimates on his size in July is accurate. That will give him three months to break in.

When my son joined the troop, the ritual at flags was the allegiance, the oath and the law. Then one of our Eagle candidates was asked to recite the Outdoor Code at his EBOR. Our SM and CC were embarrassed that he could not do it. After that, it became a part of the meeting ritual. Now every scout knows it by rote. The challenge comes when we make them live it.

That's why God made empty Gatoraid bottles.

Hold off on buying any gear right now. Your contingent will probably have a few meetings discussing what works/ what doesn't. Hopefully, the advisors will have experience with the Philmont way of doing things. During the training hikes, he will get to see other gear in use and choose what he thinks he will need. My son and I are going this summer with our OA contingent. Several of the advisors have been to Philmont numerous times and are a wealth of knowledge of what works, what doesn't. The Philmont packing list is a good place to start. For example, our contingent will be bringing our own tents and stoves because of previous experiences with the Philmont gear. I don't know if it is a well founded complaint, but who am I to decide? At NTiers, the supplied tents were fine, but one of our stoves never worked properly.