Gary_Miller

I serve as an adult leader to ensure that there is a program available for that one boy who wants to be a scout. Because, when I was a boy and moved there was no program for me. I stay in the program because today somewhere there was a little boy born who will need the influence scouting has to offer to help him become a functioning adult in society, and I just maybe the adult who can provide what he needs. (This message has been edited by Gary_Miller)

What is a Vice Chief for Vigil, and what does the position do.

Yea, a whole two posts in the same tread asking for a password thats easy to find if you just know where to look. I guess its all them years in the military that makes me question these type of things.

I suggest you talk to your lodge or chapter chief for that information. How do we know your an OA member just because you say so.

I once though about going to 21CWB, then I heard that I would have to give up wearing my Old beads until my ticket was completed. Not this boy. I worked two hard going to both BSWB and CS Train the Trainer WB in the 80 and early 90s. Not to mention working two tickets and all the years since to give up wearing my beads. Steve, welcome to ORE-IDA council, maybe we will met up someday.

gldiii, "We are LDS and our ward was recently split, so now my sons are attending cub scouts with a different pack. They do not like the new pack anywhere near as much as the old pack with our old ward, so my question is, is there any rule that would prevent them from joining and meeting with their old pack from our previous ward? Thanks!" Ward splits and boundary changes are always a hard thing especially if you really liked your ward and now your in another ward or maybe even a whole new ward. However, it important that you teach your youth that they should attend the activities of their new ward in order to build and strengthen the ward. This includes scout meetings as they are a intricate part of the ward program. Units sponsored by LDS wards for the most part are much different than units from other churches as they tend to have more ward leadership involvement than other church units who only provide a place to meet and offer very little more. I would suggest that you as parents get involved with the pack of your new ward and help make it a good unit, so that all the boys will enjoy the pack. Look at what the old pack was doing that made it fun and enjoyable and help move the pack in that direction for the good of all the boys in the pack and all the boys yet to join the pack.

Besides the 1st class scout requirement elections can only be done for a troop or team. That leaves any member of a venturing crew out (including adults) even if they joined the crew as a BS who had earned 1st class. Unless of course they are duel registered in a BS troop as well.

Told to me by my son a BSA camp staffer. One night he was awaken by the yelling of help from some boys in a camp site up from the staff area. When he arrived at the site he saw two scouts tied to a tree with his SM and Troop all sitting around the campfire laughing. It seems that there are these two troops that always go to camp at the same time. They are always competing with each other. It seems that the game for that night was a hugh water fight between the troops, soaker guns, water cannons, buckets, water balloons where all in play. All the scouts and tents and equipment where soaked the entire camp was wet. Anyway it appears that the other troop captured these two boys and tied them to the tree right in the middle of their own camp while the other boys where attacking the other camp. My boy said it was the funnest thing to see the SM just sitting there in his chair as if nothing had even happened, while his scouts screamed for help.(This message has been edited by Gary_Miller)

Beavah, "I don't know what position Gary_Miller holds in his unit, but I found this refreshing and striking, eh?" I was a non Called volunteer (LDS Unit) serving on the committee in the outdoors/activities position. I say was because I was release from the committee last year even though I wanted to stay involved. My release was due to me being vocal in the other leaders getting the proper training and running the program as it was intended by BSA. There was also two other experienced scouter's (all of us have 20 or more years as scout leader) released at the same time due to the same reason. The inexperienced COR could not see the problems or agreed with the actions of the leaders, so the experienced scouter were the ones to go. The new committee now is comprised of non-scouter's mostly women who have never had any experience in scouting at all, and would not have been involved if it was not for the church leaders calling them to the positions. Suffice it to say the scout units are floundering, the program is stagnate, and the scouts are suffering. We are all working at district level positions now. One is the District Chairman, myself is the District Advancement chairman, and the other guy works with the district training and advancement committees. This all happened because we expected leaders to ether do their the job they committed to do. And voice our feelings when things were not happening correctly. The only leaders in the three Units (Troop, Team, and Crew) that attend round tables or district meetings are, the SM, TC and CC. The TC is also the other guy that helps with district training and advancement committees, he just got inducted into the Council Hall of Fame. Its a very sad situation.(This message has been edited by Gary_Miller)

If I was the OP I would continue to concentrate all my effort on my Den, that's where their responsibility lies. And I would refer the parents from the other den to the Cub Master and let him take care of the problem, that's one of his responsibilities.

Oak Tree, the paper work is part of the job, its covered in the BSA specifics training material. And thats why there is a committee to see that these things get done. Filling out and providing council information like training records, Quality Unit, adult recognition, and much more is just as important as registering for summer camp, filling advancement reports and maintaining merit badge counselor lists. Its all part of leading the youth.

Moose, sounds like it time to get rid of some ASM's. My guess is that most of these ASM's are parents who want to hang around meetings with their kid, but are not serous about the program. If their kid don't go on the campout then they don't ether.

Most people in the units I work with or have worked with would say that I'm the one "who causes the most trouble". Do to simple fact that I expect and demand that the program be ran by BSA guidelines and policies, and that the youth of the program make all the decisions pertaining to the program, youth led and youth ran. I also expect volunteer leaders to do what they said they would do when they signed up as a leader. Which is to put in the time required in the position in which they serve. And if they choose not to, just can't, or just won't, then I expect them to get out of the way and let someone who will.

While this may sound gruff. Its a fact. "Its not mine or the units problem, its a family problem. While we would like to work around everyones schedule its impossible to do so. We set the date for camp to fit what is best for the majority of unit members. After that its up to them to come or not."

I purchase a box of cookies from every Girl Scout that asks me, because the price is good and so are the products. Due to the price of pop-corn I can't afford to purchase from every Boy Scout that asks me.

Horizon, "Part of the BSA Troop Meeting Guide includes skills instruction - I have no problem if, during that portion of the meeting, MB Counselors want to meet. We also let Scouts meet with the MB Counselors during pre-meeting time as well." Skill instruction time is a time for other scouts to instruct the troop in a skill related to the months theme, usually presented by the assigned patrol. Pre-meeting is a time for the scouts to get ready for the meeting while at the same time having a little challange of some kind to work on while others are arriving. It is not a time for a MB Counselor to meet with scouts. Horizon, "An entire meeting - no. But, to get some of the volunteers to fit us in, they ASK that they have time during a Monday night meeting." Its time to learn how to say "no" to these MB volunteers while at the same time teaching them the purpose of the troop meeting. Help them understand that when they come to the troop meeting they are pulling a scout out of an important meeting in which he should attend. You can encourage this by helping them understand that the scout needs to come to them and not them to the scout. Horizon, "The Scouts also ask for more opportunities on Monday nights as well. I would argue it is Counselor led AND Scout led driving the offering." I would argue that your PLC is not trained enough to understand what is suppose to be happening at the troop meeting, and your meetings are starting to lean toward MB Training sessions. I would suggest giving the PLC a copy of the troop planning work sheet to use during in planning the troop meeting. The PLC will quickly see that there is no time for MB training sessions during the troop meeting.

AK-Eagle, "From this side of the monitor a "Overtrained" committee member is one without field experience with the actual scouts, or leaders in the unit(s) but can quote "the rules"" How is this being "Over" trained? I would think this is "under" trained. AK-Eagle, "Examples would be uniforms required while traveling," If your in my vehicle you will have a uniform on. You can take your shirt off and just wear a tee. But the shirt goes back on if you get out at a stop. Call me an old fuddy duddy but I think its important to look like a scout when your on a scout outing. AK-Eagle, "or no driving after dark." While it may not be a rule its a good idea if it can be avoided.

CA_Scouter, "Overtrained committee members." Please explain what it is that makes you feel this way? What is an over trained committee member?(This message has been edited by Gary_Miller)

trendyfarmgal, "So, we have run into timing issues with trying to do Arrow of Light and Bridging at our next two monthly Pack Meetings...Blue and Gold in Feb. and Pinewood Derby in March. Too many boys and awards, and we just did them both in the last few months. We are an LDS pack and on the 1 year schedule." In an LDS pack the AOL Ceremony would be given out when its earned, and the Bridging Ceremony would be given the month the boy turns 11yrs. The biggest mistake packs make is holding award until B&G if awards are given out at each monthly pack meeting then there should not be a large amount at B&G.. On pine wood derby month I would not hold any ceremonies I would just hand out the awards. There is no hard and fast rule to have ceremonies at all. If a ceremony is desired then do it the month before or the month after even if the boy has already went to the 11 yr scout program. He can return to the pack meeting for the ceremony. trendyfarmgal, "I have a boy getting ready to do both and turn 11 begining of March and wondered, has anyone ever held the ceremonies seperately? Ya know, out side of pack meeting? I can't find anything that says don't but wondered if anyone had tried it before." You could do a ceremony separately if I did I would do it during a Webelos Den meeting instead of trying to have a separate pack meeting.

From what has been described this was a ligament project. It meets all the requirements for and Eagle Project. The over all requirement is for the Eagle Candidate to show leadership. That leadership starts when the project is approved, by making assignments to others and ensuring that they are carried out, it is not just what the scout does on the day of the project. There is no rule that the project has to include other scouts at all. Leadership in this case could have consisted of getting someone who is a baker to help in finding a recipe, collecting and making sure there was enough ingredients to do the job, and working with an organization who would deliver the end product. As long as the candidate was in charge of organizing and seeing that the project was completed he showed leadership. Its not the number of people involved as much as what was accomplished and how it was accomplished. Nor is it the number of hours physically but into the project.

Its not the current adult leaders job to make scouting fun for parents and other adults. Their job is to make sure there is a program for the youth to have fun. When the youth have a good program and are having fun then the adult leaders will be having fun right along with them. The most fun I've had is just sitting back and watching the youth perform. There is always something happening that puts a smile on my face and makes me laugh.

Hunting, fishing, and horse back Riding.

Doc Meyer,"The fact is that there are too many zealots to have meaningful contributions to the BSA site. Look around this place. Training zealots have already permeated most elements of the BSA." Zealots, a word use by others to describe those who have years of dedication to the program and have a strong passion in ensuring it stays focused on boys and scouting skills. Usually used by those who don't want to operate the program in accordance with current policies and procedures. Doc Meyer,"Camp school syllabbi have gotten a major re-write thanks to both executives and volunteer Scouters." Yes, but is the rewrite what was needed to put on a effective scout camp using scout skills and scout craft as a primary focus of camp. Who were the volunteer Scouter's and how were they picked. Doc Meyer,"I don't blame the BSA for wanting to control methods of input from the field." I will. Who better to give input to the program than those who have been working in the trenches for years and years. Unlike many of the so called professional staffers who have never been in the trenches or even know what BSA was until the graduated from college and was looking for a job. I have DE who had no scouting experience in fact they were not even scouts as a youth. It does not take much reading of the innovations proposed by the professional staff to realize many of them know nothing about the program at the level where the rubber meets the road.

Wither its a good thing or not will depend on how far BSA takes it. It should go as far as to encourage healthy physical activity but not go so far as to discourage participation by overweight youth. The current weight standards on the physical form is bordering on discouraging non-participation by overweight youth and adults. It focuses to much on weight VS height and not enough on the fitness of the participant. There needs to be something in place that measures fitness for the activity more than weight. On one hand you can met the weight standard and not be fit for the activity. On the other hand you could be fit for the activity and not met the weight standards. We need to find the happy medium between both weight and fitness. Which even the military has not been able to figure out.

GernBlansten,"Barring that, I think the purpose of the Senate has run its course and should be disbanded." I think this would be a big mistake. The Senate is that last check before a bill goes to the President for signature. That step is important when it comes to ensuring balance in legislature. The party system is the problem not the Senate. GernBlansten, "Their rules allow a single senator to stop the will of the people and disrupt progress." This is not all bad. Sometimes the most important thing is to disrupt the progress by slowing things down. Just last year we saw what can happen when things are allowed to go through the system two fast. GernBlansten, "The filibuster has been abused to the point that it is a joke. It is a place where special interests override the interests of the people." We just need to go back to the old rule of a filibuster. That of which you have to be actively engaged in speaking on the floor. It slows the process down but does not end it altogether.