Gary_Miller

Adults don't have rights. They only have a responsibility to the youth. Part of that responsibility is to train the youth leadership on their responsibility of ensuring that the scout program is well thought out, planned, and scheduled where it allows for the most possible participation. As an adult your have a responsibility to advise the youth on appropriate activities and what makes an appropriate activity. The youth then have the right to decide on what they will do. Your responsibility as a adult leader/advisor is to then salute smartly and provide support. If you can't participate because of a scheduling conflict thats why you have a committee to help provide support so the activity can happen. When we signed up as a volunteer leader we said we would do the job according to the guidelines and policies of the BSA. Which is a youth ran youth lead program. If you can't/don't want to do that then you have a responsibility to get out of the way so someone else can.

At our camp the staff meets your vehicle at the gate where they assign you a camp friend. Then check in at the tables and head head to the water front, 1 mile hike, for swim checks. After swim checks there is a short tour that ends up at the assigned campsite for set up. I always have the youth wear their swim gear under their uniform to travel to camp, makes things go faster. I also have the camp friend take the youth straight to the water front for checks while I do check in. Makes things go faster. I usually don't take the swim check unless the youth decide to go on the overnight canoe trip to the island for outpost. Lakes way to cold for me.

SctDad, even on a pack campout I would not provide additional food. Either parent/son gets up at the appointed time or they miss a meal. Its now up to parent to listen to their son complane because he is hungry or provide themselves something to eat, not out of the pack food stuff either. As for older scouts, get up on time or miss out. I guarantee that if a boy has to go hungry for awhile he will get up the next time if its important to him. Remember, No Scout has ever starved to death on an overnight campout.

Twocubdad, no offense taken. I was just stating my experience as an LDS scout leader in working with non-LDS youth in an LDS unit. And your right in that LDS units tend to be exclusive with in their assigned wards, and non-LDS youth tend to attend their local town units. I was just lucky being in the military my LDS ward was exclusively the base housing areas and we had some of the non-LDS youth attend our unit because the base scout troop was having problems. I have also been in areas where the LDS boys attended the Local town unit due to the number of LDS boys in a ward. This happens alot at overseas military bases.

2cubdad, as a LDS scout leader who has had non-LDS youth in the troop. I can assure you we have the up most respect for youth of other faiths. While I encourage youth to attend church services it is never forced on anyone. I expect the youth to have respect for each others faith. And while we pray at the opening and closing of our meetings and before traveling, I have never met anyone who has had a problem with praying. As for pictak's problem. As an ASM I would first discuss my concern with the SM and if he still insits on forcing the boys to go then I would go to the Committee and discuss it at length with them. While it's important for an ASM to support the SM and for them to work togeather. The ASM Loyalty is first to the CO and the youth. This SM is in need of some training or maybe needing replaced.

We just did the Tracking MB at our spring camporee. We had the state fish and game tracker come as the counselor/instructor.(This message has been edited by Gary_Miller)

Have the boys purchase the official hat for bears so they are in proper uniform attire. While the youth are in CS is the time to teach them proper uniforming. The other hat you mentioned is not a official uniform hat even though its sold through the scout shop.

Trade them away if he would like. But make sure he keeps a set for himself or he may regret it in the future. Even though he did not attend AC5 he is a member of the OA and AC5 was one of the biggest OA activities in a long time and all OA members deserve credit for AC5 even if they were not there.

MB are not to be taught, that why your called a MB counslor and not a MB instructor. MB are to be earned by completing the requirement to the counselors satisfaction. The youth is suppose to study the requirements and pamphlet do the works and pass off the requirements to the counselors satisfaction. The purpose it for the youth to learn by doing, researching and asking questions of their counselor, not by having someone teach subject and then pass off the requirements because sat in a class.

Unit ceremonies is not the responsibility of the OA lodge/chapter. It is just something we do, usually because the youth like to do them. The OA is about leadership and service, and having fun while doing. If the program is not totally centered around what the youth want to do, then there is a problem.(This message has been edited by Gary_Miller)

It seems to me this boy is acting like a boy. He is just doing things boys do. Now that we understand that we can get down to how to funnel his boy energy and mischievousness into what would help him become strong young man and man. There is no cut and dry answers it all depends on the boy you have to figure out what works for the boy. A good male role model has been mentioned since the den leaders are both women then get a good den chief one who works well with CS age boys, and who the boys look up to. But the most important thing to remember is boys will be boys. They need to me active. They don't like to sit around and listen to someone talk. They learn better by doing. Don't treat them like girls.

Since there seems to be no set guidelines in how a lodge should go about in selecting, Founders Award Recipients, I would like to hear how other lodges are make the selection. Currently in our lodge the selection is made at the Fall Ordeal, by the "Founders Committee" which is a committee made up of all past founders who are in attendance at the Ordeal. Usually this is only adult members.

SR540Beaver (Wish I could address you with your name) It sounds as if you have a challenge in revitalizing your chapter and lodge. Here is a couple of suggestions First, have a pre-chapter meeting with your Chief. Helping and guiding him in setting the agenda. This meeting will also help you be able to give you suggestions and any requests you may have in getting the chapter pointed in the right direction. It maybe that your chief has never had any training in how to conduct a meeting, you may have to train him. Second, get all the young men in your chapter to National Leadership Seminar (NLS) and get yourself to National Lodge Adviser Training Seminar (NLATS) Third, get with the lodge/section leadership and ask them to conduct an LLD for your chapter. If you go to the LLD web site you can build the program around what you feel your boys need. Fourth, My son, currently a lodge chief, says as an advisor you need to realize that what you think is of value or interesting or the way the chapter needs to go may not be what your young men want to happen. The young men may just want to have fun, and thats ok as long as its within the mission and purpose of the OA.

SR540Beaver "What I'm finding is that I NEED to schedule all ceremonies or it won't get done." This is what I'm talking about. As a chapter advisor you feel its important to do ceremonies so you do all the scheduling. If your chapter is truly ran by the young men, a young man would be responsable for doing this. SR540Beaver "As an Adviser, part of my job is to give these honor scouts additional opportunities to use the leadership skills they have learned thru scouting. Part of my job is to ensure that while doing that, the boys don't damage the reputation of the Lodge thru youthful negligence." I disagree it is not the Advisers job to give additional opportunities, or to even ensure the lodges reputation not damaged thur youthful negligence. The youth own the lodge/chapter the youth are responsible for everything if they choose to do nothing then nothing happens. But thats OK because its what the youth decided. As an advisor your job is to offer advice/suggestions and ensure the youth stay with in the guidelines of the OA and BSA. The youth is under no obligation to heed your advice. SR540Beaver "If you had told your Webelos Den or your Pack for the last 4 to 6 weeks that an OA team was coming to do a ceremony and then had everyone sitting in chairs staring at a wall, what would you do? Would you get up and say, oh well, it is boy run and sometimes this happens with teenagers or would you be on the phone to the Adviser asking how he could have let this happen?" Would not of happened with our chapter as its totally Youth ran, and because it is the youth have buy in. If a ceremony happens its because the young men wanted to do it. If for some reason the young men missed a ceremony no one would be talking to the advisor because the point of contact is a youth, and thats the number they would have. SR540Beaver "As a new Adviser, I do indeed expect my guys to step up to the plate." Whose plate/agenda yours or the young mens. SR540Beaver "As a member of the Lodge and the District Committee, I simply can't just throw it out there as part of a grand experiment and hope for the best." Boy lead units and OA lodges have far surpassed the experimental phase. It a fact that they work if the adults will let the youth do it. One more thought. Could it be that the youth "Driving the Car" wants to go somewhere else than the advisor wants. Or maybe they are going to the same place but the youth want to take a different route to get there.

While reading this tread the first thing that came to mind was. Why are the youth not running the whole program? Its my belief that if the youth were the ones running the program this would have not happened. The youth need to be in charge. The youth need to be the ones who are called to schedule the ceremonies. The youth are the ones who need to gather the equipment. The youth need to be the ones who make sure transportation is arranged. The youth need to be the ones who make sure there is a team together. You have to let the youth "Drive the Car." So where you maybe disappointed in the chapter. I'm disappointed in the adults who don't know the true meaning of the word "advisor".