funscout

Eammon, That's a great web-site. I bookmarked it so I can share it with other leaders if need be. I don't forsee any problems with my son's future troop, since most of the leaders already know him, and have helped me with him at Camporee, etc. My son has been known to tell me that are some benefits to having ADHD, because he has plenty of energy for soccer, etc.

relarue, according to Baden Powell (as has been quoted in other posts), it's more important to get and keep boys in scouting, than it is to keep them in full uniform. Since this is a big deal to you, why don't you just use your son (and yourself, if you are a leader) as a role model, and have him wear the full uniform. He might be the only one, but then again, others might be influenced and choose to go with the whole uniform, too. I wouldn't get too hung up on what the boys are wearing. I'd be more concerned on how the Pack was run and what the boys were DOING. Fun, well-organized activities will keep kids in scouting more than uniforms ever could.

PeteM, I, too, have a boy (10 years old) who has ADHD along with anger management problems. Whenever I get especially frustrated with my son, I call my Mom because she's so good at reminding me that God gave this precious child to ME, because He knew that I could handle him, and love him. No matter what anyone says about your son, remember God gave him to YOU because He knew you could handle him and love him. Lynda J. and scoutldr, be very glad God didn't feel you should be given an ADHD child! I, too had worked with ADD and ADHD kids for 13 years, before I had one of my own. Believe me, there is a world of difference between working with these kids for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, vs. living with them 24/7 (and in the summer time, it IS 24/7 for me!) Also, remember the big difference between ADD and ADHD: Hyperactivity! PeteM, I'm sure you get tired of people misunderstanding your son's diagnosis, just like I do. I am very fortunate that ALL the parents of my Webelos den are very supportive of my son and me. I don't know what I would do if I had to deal with people who feel that ADHD has no bearing on the person's behavior. I don't believe ADHD should be used as an excuse, but it definitely EXPLAINS the behavior. Yes, these kids should be disciplined, but not hated! The parents should be supported, not belittled! These poor kids have to work twice as hard at controlling their impulses, behavior, and emotions. It exhausts me just to think of all my son has to do, just to make it through a day. PeteM., I would have done exactly as you did. I think you and your troop handled the situation just right. As for what to do next, I wish I had the answers. Over the years my son has been in therapy with 2 different social workers, a psychologist, and a psychiatrist. Every year he does get better, but I still worry about his impulsiveness getting him into trouble. The worst case scenario would be him seriously injuring himself or others. I have not yet let him earn his Whittling Chip, due to my concerns. If he does get knife privileges, they will be limited to constant adult supervision, and I will not allow him to keep or carry the knife. This will be trickier when he crosses over to Boy Scouts next year, because boys will be in charge. I'm sure everyone will agree, though, that kids like my son do need continued monitoring by adults. By the way, my older son is border-line ADD, but has none of the problems his younger brother has. He has been totally trustworthy with his knife since he earned his Whittling Chip at age 8. Hang in there, PeteM., you are doing the right thing, and some day your son will thank you for it!

Gern, unless this kid has more than one uniform shirt, this is the same shirt that I saw him get at his Arrow of Light ceremony at the end of February. It was a brand new shirt (and bought big for him, so I know it would still fit) so it didn't have any patches on it. Good point, though, that unless I know for SURE that it really was his original shirt, I can't know if it's HIS Star Rank patch or not. Given the history I know with this family, I'd be willing to bet he is being pushed through the ranks. As a cub, this boy kept working on Wolf arrow points even though he was a 3rd grader and in a Bear den. I told the Dad that was not right, but he insisted, because he wanted his son to be able to wear every possible arrow point on his uniform. I decided it was not worth the effort to continue arguing, because he wouldn't change his mind. Really I just wanted to vent. This family, while irritating to me, does not really affect my family. It was interesting to hear that others have run across "corner cutters" as well. It's too bad the parents don't realize the disservice they are doing to their kids.

Gern, there are several boys in our troop who are on the fast track like your son. I think that's great because they are self-motivated, but they are doing the requirements the way they are supposed to be done. In this case, though, it's an 11 year old boy who has been a Boy Scout for only 4-1/2 months. Ed, supposedly Dad and son are still trying to decide which troop to join. Son must have joined one of them or he couldn't be earning rank at all. Yeah, something is fishy, isn't it? Since this boy was in my Pack, and was still earning Webelos awards right up to our last Pack Meeting, I know he couldn't have joined a troop earlier than any of our other 2nd year Webelos. My guess is that Dad is either simply buying the rank patches himself or else our Council isn't catching the fact that his son is earning rank faster than is possible, according to the requirements. Not exactly a stellar example of the scouting ideals!

Beavah, maybe I should check out medical issues. My son has asthma and is on several medications. I never thought to check out whether any of them could be dehydrating him faster than normal. On the other hand, there could be something in our genes. My brother, mother, and maternal grandmother are all very heat sensitive. My grandmother is full-blooded Norwegian, so we've always joked that we are programmed for colder weather. I will advise my son to use a camel-back type hydration system next summer during the OA ceremony. When my son did the bicycling merit badge we made sure he had a camel-back so he could drink often as he rode.

I know of a boy who finished Cub Scouts at the end of February, so the soonest he could have joined a troop would have been March 1st. I just saw him, four and a half months later, with the Star rank patch on his shirt! That means he had to have finished Scout, Tenderfoot, 2nd Class and 1st Class in just 2 weeks, in order to meet the "4 months as 1st Class" requirement for Star. Dad was upset that our troop wouldn't count Webelos activities towards Boy Scout rank, so they didn't join our troop. I'm guessing that's how he is justifying the quick rank earning. One Tenderfoot requirement takes 30 days: Show improvement on specified exercises. Second Class requires participation in at least 5 different troop/patrol activities (other than regular meetings), 2 of which must be camp-outs. This kid is attending 2 troops, but even so, I don't see how he could have participated in 10 different activities (1st class requirement) in less than a month. The leaders from our troop just shook their heads when they saw him. It doesn't do any good to talk to the Dad because he justifies things in his mind and won't listen to others. (This is the same kid who took rifle shooting merit badge 2 years earlier than anyone else in the Council was allowed to do.) Ah, I needed to vent! Nothing can be done about this, but I feel better now!

My older son is a prime example of someone who memorized the Oath and Law in order to earn the Arrow of Light, then promptly forgot them at his first troop meeting. I think the stress of being in a new situation and "stage fright" at being in front of a bunch of people he didn't know well, also added to his "forgetfulness" at his first few troop meetings. It took me a while to figure out why he was always running late when it was time to leave for the meetings. He finally admitted that if he got there late enough, the troop would already be finished reciting the Oath, Law, etc. I realized that he needed a review, but in the mean time, I told him to at least memorize the first couple words of each one, since the whole troop chimes in after the selected boy starts it off. Now that I know my scouts will be asked to lead the Oath, etc. in front of their troop, I will have my younger son's Webelos den members take turns doing this at Den meetings. I think this would have better prepared my older son, who is shy about being in front of a group of people.

MaScout, Your explanation about some SMs waiting to point out their scouts is probably what happened at our ceremony. That would explain why the OA guys went around the circle so many times. In our troop, as I mentioned, it was a case of a too short SM.

I'll find out more info. at tonight's troop meeting. Our scoutmaster did ask if the 2 almost-13 year olds could take rifle shooting at camp, but was told no. I guess he didn't ask the same person that the 11 year old's Dad asked, since he was told yes. The main issue is that it does need to be fair for all scouts. Sometimes my son gets disappointed that he doesn't get to do everything the other boys in his patrol get to do, since he is young for his grade. But then I remind him that 3 of his patrol-mates will turn 18 BEFORE their senior year in high school, 3 others will turn 18 in the Fall of senior year, but my son and his buddy will have ALL of their senior year to complete Eagle. This always gives him a smile!

One problem for the lengthy ceremony is that the OA guys (I'm showing my ignorance here!) had trouble finding the boys to be tapped out. In our case, our scoutmaster is shorter than several of our scouts, so he wasn't visible standing behind the scout to be tapped out. Maybe we need to have a taller leader take his place next year! I'm not sure why they had trouble finding other troops' boys. Maybe we had lots of short SMs this year! (I'm thinking of a skit the boys could do with one of them playing the SM, jumping up and waving his hands to try to be seen!) nldscout - I sent a PM to you from the other topic (rifle shooting age). Let me know if you don't get it.

Our council is doing Webelos Woods for the first time in several years. It's being touted as a "Camporee just for Webelos." I'm excited about it, but I also worry that some of my webelos' parents will be unwilling to send them to BOTH Webelos Woods and Camporee. Both events are in the fall, and many of my webelos will be in soccer or football. Attending both events would mean missing 2 weekends of their sport.

I'm curious what other Councils do for OA ceremonies. Ours last several hours and the scouts have to stand the whole time. Since the boys get yelled at for not standing completely still, then that means no one is drinking water for all those hours. My son now knows he'll just have to get yelled at, in order to stay healthy. The only other thing he could do is wear one of the back-pack drinking systems. He used one his first year at camp, but he wasn't good enough at cleaning it and the tubing got moldy. He didn't overheat that summer, but I shudder to think that he was drinking out of a moldy tube!

Thanks for the refresher course! My son knows that he needs to drink more water than the other boys, but in this case he was afraid of getting yelled at. Our SM told him that next time, he should drink, even if he does get yelled at, since it's more important to stay healthy, than to avoid being yelled at. My son gets frustrated that his buddies never get heat exhaustion, even though he drinks more water than they do. Maybe it's due to the fact that he's a red-head, is skinny, and fair-skinned, and he's of Norwegian ancestry! He and I both prefer cold weather to hot weather! This year our camp used colored flags to let the boys know what the temp. was, and each color of flag signified how much water they should be drinking in a certain amount of time.

acco40, yes, our Cubs get to do BB shooting at Day Camp, and Boy scouts can do BB shooting at Boy Scout camp, but they've already done that as Cubs, so they really want to move on to Rifle shooting. My son and the other almost-13 year old are both big for their age. They both look 16, yet they are still 12 (for a few more days.) The 11 year old is average size for an 11 year old. I'm going to talk to our Scoutmaster first, and then go on to check with Council. I'd just like to see the rule applied fairly to all scouts, not just ones whose parents are "squeaky wheels." Thanks, everyone for the info. on when your council (or state) allows rifle shooting. I'll be better informed, now when I talk to our Council.

My son overheats VERY easily and the whole troop knows this, since he has suffered from heat exhaustion on at least 3 camp-outs. This is my son's 3rd year at camp, so he knew what to expect, but still, he got heat exhaustion. Son was afraid to take a drink from his water bottle during the OA ceremony, since he saw boys getting yelled at for not standing still. He started to wobble, and started to lose hearing, as he became heat exhausted. The boy next to him asked, "What's wrong?" Son could see the boy's lips moving, but couldn't hear him, so he said, "What?" Other boy asked 3 times, with the same result, before going to get the Scoutmaster. SM immediately knew it was heat exhaustion, so he said, "Take a drink from your water bottle." Son couldn't hear, and said, "What?" So, SM pointed to his water bottle, and mimed drinking. Then he led my son away from the ceremony and let him sit. My husband and I are realizing that the boys need a refresher course in recognizing heat exhaustion. We are glad that the other scout at least went for the SM pretty quickly.

I've done a lot of searching on the web, but haven't found many answers to this question. Our Council uses 13 as the minimum age, but I did find one Council that lets 12 year olds shoot rifles. When my son was at camp last week he and his fellow troop members were upset that an 11 year old boy (who just crossed over to Boy Scouts in March) was allowed to take the rifle shooting merit badge, while none of our 12 year olds were allowed, including my son and one other boy, who both turn 13 in one week. The 11 year old was in the same Cub scout pack, (his Dad was Cubmaster) as many of the boys in my son's troop, so that's how they knew how young he was. Needless to say, this caused some pretty hard feelings. I'm going to check with our council on Monday to see why an 11 year old was allowed, yet 2 almost-13 year olds were told they couldn't do the merit badge. (Long before camp started, our Scoutmaster had asked if these two could do riflery.) Since I know the boy in question, I know he is not any more mature than my son or the other almost-13 year old. On Family Night, I talked to the Dad, and let him know that his former Cubs were pretty upset with him. Dad said that he got special permission for son do the badge 2 years earlier than anyone else. This boy also did another merit badge that was supposed to be for 2nd year campers and older, and that also has our Troop upset that rules are being bent for him, but no one else. This kid went to 2 weeks of Summer Camp, with 2 different troops (he's not in our troop), so I guess his Dad was able to convince somebody that his kid was no longer a 1st year camper! Any suggestions on how to solve this issue? Our boys have lost respect for their former Cubmaster since he is pushing for special favors for his own son, and showing that it's okay to not follow the rules. A Scout is Obedient? The Dad is very active in scouting, so we will continue to run into him at Council events.

What a great idea! My son is at camp this week and I definitely would have checked on-line to see what was going on at camp, if we had this available to us.

Thank you Knotty Fox for reminding us that Baden Powell himself was not a stickler for uniforms. I think it's great when scouts and scouters are fully uniformed, but I agree with Baden Powell that it should not be as big a deal as many make it out to be.

My son's troop suggests that the boys wear ANY scout related T-shirt when ever the field uniform isn't required. For young Boy scouts, that usually means bringing several cub scout Day Camp shirts, which is okay at our council's camp.

Last summer our Pack had a similar situation. Our August event had to be postponed twice due to bad weather. We actually ended up having it in early September but we still counted it as our August event, since we had no control over the weather.

I agree with all the reasons given about why kids are missing out on nature these days. I just returned from a week in northern Minn. where my boys and their friends spent the first two days at the beach digging in the sand, making castles and moats, catching frogs and leeches (yuck!) and making forts in the woods the whole day long. Then, they unfortunately discovered that my parents have sattelite T.V. in their cabin! Neither my kids nor the boys we brought up have sattelite or cable T.V. at home, so this was a real treat for them. We had to limit their T.V. time or else they would have wasted the rest of the vacation indoors!

LauraT7, Great ideas! Every summer my family spends a few weeks at my parents' cabin in Minnesota, and I'm going to try some of these activities with my boys and their friends. When I was a kid, we had races and obstacle courses with small sailboats. We used milk jugs with anchors, for our buoys. One time we didn't get all the buoys brought back in, and the next day, we saw some people fishing near our buoy, thinking that it marked a good fishing spot!

LoveTheOutdoors: I like your idea! That is a creative way to solve this problem. I think I'll do it, and start a trend in our Pack.

What do you do when your son has so many belt loops that his belt won't fit properly? My older son still wore his, even though the number of belt loops caused his belt to be a few inches too big when he buckled it. Imagine the belt all the way around the boy's waist, but the buckled part of the belt sticks out 2 or 3 inches from his stomach. Do I tell my younger son he just can't wear all his belt loops, or tell him to gain weight(!) or should he wear 2 belts, or drape it across his body like a sash?! I know he won't be happy with me telling him he can't wear all the belt loops he has earned, but it looked so strange when my older son had his belt sticking out away from his body! Younger son will probably do that very thing, if no better idea comes along.