funscout

Pack378, Although it may be easier on the den leader if all boys are on the same "level", in real life, that rarely happens. If your special needs boy has done the Bobcat requirements, for example, to the best of HIS abilities, then he has earned that rank. If the other boys think it''s not fair that they have to do more "work" than the other boy, then explain to them that everyone has different strengths and weaknesses, and they should be thankful that they are able to read, write, etc. When I had a new boy in my Bear den, I didn''t know at first that he had a Learning Disability and couldn''t read or write very well. I had asked the boys to write something for a requirement that said, "List several...." This boy just sat with his head down and looked like he was going to cry. I guessed then, that he probably couldn''t write very well, so I changed plans, and asked for one volunteer to write the list, while everyone contributed verbally. This way, the "special" boy wasn''t singled out, and he and everyone else still contributed. JustaDad, As for seeking out Special Needs kids, I don''t really think extra recruiting needs to be done. All boys are given notes about scout recruiting night at school, so everyone has equal notice. If you feel your schools aren''t getting the word out, you could talk to the Special Ed. teachers about your Pack/Troop, so they can better explain Scouts to any boy who has questions.

I had to add this. One of our Middle School football players showed up to the scout meeting tonight in full uniform - football, that is! Yes, he still had his shoulder pads on! LOL Two others had on the scout shirt with football pants and cleats. The football players who showed up in scout uniforms were all 10-15 minutes late.

Barry, My 6th grader is in football, and my 9th grader is in soccer and marching band. I take both boys to scouts even though older son only gets 15 minutes before we leave for band. I take 2 other kids from scouts to band, and someone else brings older son home. Thank goodness for carpools! I can''t wait for football/soccer/marching band season to be over!

He could change clothes at the meeting site, but then he''d miss the opening of the meeting. We literally get there and have to run from the parking lot to get there before the flag ceremony begins. In the Spring, Summer and Fall, we have our meetings outdoors, (under a kiva if it rains). The closest "facilities" are outhouses, and I wouldn''t want him changing clothes in there! There is a cabin on site with a bathroom in the basement, that I guess he could use. So, is it better to show up consistently late, but in full uniform, or be on time with only the scout shirt?

I''m not sure it''s possible to have a "friendly" discussion about uniforms, but I am curious what others would do, in my situation. On Mondays, it''s my turn to drive four 6th graders to football practice after school. My son barely has time to eat a quick snack and put on his football gear before we have to leave. We live in the country, so once I get in to town, I stay there. Next, I pick up my older son from soccer practice and take him to a fast food restaurant for his dinner. We also pick up food for younger son, so he can eat in the car as soon as we pick him up from football. We barely have time to make it to boy scouts, and younger son ends up wearing the scout shirt with his football pants and cleats! He''s not the only one who shows up like this. If we took the time for him to change into scout pants, then he would be late for each meeting (not to mention having to change in the car.) He changes his shirt while standing outside the car. My older son gets only 15 minutes of scouts before we have to hop back in the car so I can take him to marching band practice. If we took the time for younger son to change his pants, then older son would not get any scout time during marching band season. So, my question is, "Which is more important, wearing the correct uniform or being on time? What would you do?

Dear Packsaddle, Please remember, "a scout is kind." I will give you credit for "a scout is helpful" since you offered me ideas for furthering my education. I would offer you ideas for furthering your education, but I haven''t saved any of the articles I''ve read that support my positions. I''m sorry I couldn''t be helpful to you. I thank the other people who disagreed with me in a polite manner.

I guess part of our problem is that some of our leaders cook gourmet meals at camp-outs, and the rest of us feel we have to keep up with their standards. I always eat better at camp-outs than I ever do at home!

When my boys were in Cub Scouts, they wanted a "brag" vest (red felt) after seeing other boys with them. I was a fun way to show all the patches they''d earned from Day camp, car washes, Scout Sunday, Scouting for Food, Pinewood derby, etc. You are right, those vests do fill up fast! I didn''t know of anyone who abused the idea by buying unearned patches for their son!

I''m curious how other troops handle this. One of our new leaders confided to me that he can''t afford to be the cook for the adult patrol. He cooked 2 camp-outs in a row, and enjoyed it, but our troop''s "reimbursement" plan doesn''t begin to cover the cost of the food. Each leader attending the camp-out gives $10.00 to the cook. So, if there are 4 leaders, the cook gets a total of $30.00 from the other 3. None of us wants to embarrass ourselves by serving only $30.00 worth of food for the whole weekend (or $40, if you count the cook''s $10), so we of course spend a lot more than that. We also pay for our own charcoal and tinfoil. I can see that if a large group of leaders attended, then it would be easier to cover the cost of the meals. How do other troops handle this?

Our troop has yearly dues of $26.00. I wouldn''t be able to afford $100 dues, and costly trip requirements for my 2 boys. Maybe you can check with other troops in your area to see what their policies are on popcorn sales, trips, and dues. If your troop is way out of line with other troops, than you can ask why. I agree with CalicoPenn that one boy might "earn" huge popcorn sales without actually doing the selling, yet another boy who puts in hours of work might not get much profit. It is very difficult to sell popcorn at such high prices. My troop does other fundraisers throughout the year, so we don''t have to rely solely on popcorn sales. So far, our fundraisers have allowed us to keep our dues low.

In my former Pack, the decision was made that the Pack would provide the belt loop the first time it was earned, and the family was responsible for purchasing the belt loop if earned again. (partly for money saving for the pack, partly for encouraging the boys to do different belt loops, rather than the same one over and over) As Advancement Coordinator, I always offered the suggestion that mega-amounts of awards could be spread out over several Pack meetings, so the boy would be recognized at every Pack meeting. Sometimes the boy wanted ALL the awards at once, and that was fine, but other times, they chose to spread them out. If this boy continues his over-achieving, then you don''t have to worry about him not getting awards at some Pack meetings!

Trevorum, Your example of global warming is a good one. Teachers should stick to the facts that global warming has been proven to be occuring. When they stray from the facts and insist that there is proof that HUMANS are CAUSING global warming, then that is simply their opinion. I wouldn''t want my kids to be told only one side of an argument. Unfortunately, that does happen in the schools. Evolution is another one which has not really been proven. While it does appear that species do evolve, there is no proof that a species evolves into a different species entirely. So, to be fair, both evolution and creationism should be taught. Thanks for clarifying that!

Scouts are supposed to be trustworthy... When a scout transfers, you should at the very least be able to get information on rank advancement from his previous Council office. As far as belt loops, pins, and Webelos awards, I don''t know what you can do if the boy doesn''t have them marked off in his book. Parents are supposed to mark their child''s scout book, but I think the den leader should also keep copies of the records that are turned in to the advancement chair. Books can, and do, get lost! As a den leader, I kept records of which advancements were earned at each den meeting, and with the attendance record, I knew exactly which boys had been there to earn them. I also, of course kept track of achievements that the boys earned outside of den meetings. So, when books went missing (often in divorced families where the kid goes back and forth between houses) I still had my records. The advancement Coordinator should definitely keep records of awards that Den leaders turn in to them. When I was Advancement Chair, I sometimes got requests for duplicate awards. With my records, I could prove to the den leader/parent that their boy had already received the award.

If the Mom is willing to step down, and someone else is willing to step up, as Den Leader, that would be the best thing. Then she would be able to remove her son whenever he became disruptive, without interupting the meeting. I knew it was not the best idea for me to be Den Leader for my younger son, who has ADHD, but nobody else would do it. Each year I tried to get someone else to do it, but all the parents decided it was more important to keep me as Den Leader than to have me free to deal with my disruptive child. It still amazes me that all those kids stayed in my den all those years! I usually had to delay punishment for my son, since I couldn''t leave the meeting, but all the parents knew I would follow through at home. When my husband was not traveling for work, I had him keep our son home, or I would call hubby to come get our son. My son was willing to do the missed activities at home with me at a later date, so he still advanced at the same rate as his den-mates. Even if the child in your situation were on meds, they wouldn''t still be in effect in the evening. I switched to Sunday afternoon den meetings, which worked better for my schedule, but also allowed my son to participate while his meds were still in his system.

When I was a den leader, I had 11 boys and about half of them were wild. Some things that worked for me: - Separate the "wild" ones so they can''t "egg" each other on. - Have the first activity be ACTIVE, to help get the "wiggles" out. - Do a lot of hands-on activities, so their hands are busy. - Post the rules in plain view. - Keep the rules short and simple. - Use a stop light chart. I started all their names at "green." If they broke a rule, their name moved to "yellow." Another broken rule put them at "red." At the end of the meeting, the boys got 2 candies for "green", 1 candy for "yellow", and none for "red". - Use incentives for good behavior. Give out tokens (or keep track on a chart) at the end of the meeting based on how many times you "caught" them behaving. The tokens could be exchanged for small prizes each meeting or each month. - Have other parents help out, as well as Den Chiefs. Try to make most activities at least a little bit active. When my Wolves were learning the Cub Scout Motto, I had them take turns jumping on our mini-tramp as they said the words: Do-Your-Best. The bouncing kept them active, and helped them quickly remember the words. I also had good luck with relays such as giving each team strips of paper with one sentece of the Cub Scout promise or Law on each one. Then they had to see which team could put them in the correct order first. I also had them do this with the information taped to their shirt, so they had to get themselves in the correct order. If you can get more adult helpers, you can break the boys into two or three groups, and have them rotate through the activities. My boys paid much better attention when broken into smaller groups, and we got a lot more done that way. Good Luck!

Several years ago I took a den of Webelos on a hike at Black Hawk State Historic Site in Rock Island. It's a nice wooded area and has an interesting museum on site about the Sauk and Fox Indian tribes. http://www.illinoishistory.gov/hs/black_hawk.htm Make sure you are done hiking well before dark, though! If secluded areas seem too scary since you will be alone, you could try a more public, but less scenic place. Ben Butterworth Parkway in Moline is a walking/biking path that follows the Mississippi River. Unfortunately, some of the "scenery" is of industrial parks, but other parts of the path go through grassy areas. In nice weather, especially on weekends, this path is very busy. Check with your hotel for brochures and get recommendations on whether places are safe for a women alone.

I'm glad to learn about AHG. I don't have daughters, but I will pass this information on to my nieces in San Francisco. Although girl scouting in my small midwestern town appears to still promote the same morals as when I was a child, it's quite different in California! My nieces were very excited when they became old enough to join Girl Scouts, but their parents soon pulled them out due to the fact that immoral behaviors were being promoted at scout meetings and camp-outs. I'm glad to hear that there is an organization they can join where they will get a scouting experience WITH morals just like their brother's Cub Scout Pack.

Rather than requiring parents to help, we have tried incentive programs. Any scout whose parent helped with planning and/or running an event got their recharter fee paid for by the Pack. We got lots of "helpers" this way, but still ended up having leaders do most of the running of the events, due to the reasons Eammon mentioned. We've also tried having each den be responsible for a specific event, but didn't have as much success with that. Even without requiring parental help, we still lose a few kids early in the scout year, because parents say the kid is too busy. I'm sure a big part of it is that the parents don't want to have to be so involved.

I prefer keeping Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts separate. Any parent of a girl who prefers Boy Scouts should step up and become an awesome Girl Scout leader. My boys will be starting Middle School and High School in a couple weeks. After seeing the way the girls dress at those ages, I really wish we did have an all-boys school!

I agree with Gonzo's statement that George W. Bush is a decent, honorable, honest man. The thing I have always admired about Bush is that he does what he believes is RIGHT, not what he believes is POPULAR. I voted for Bush both times, and although I disagree with some of his policies, (I feel he is too soft on illegal immigration and I'm disappointed with the overspending) I would not change my vote if I could go back in time. I couldn't trust Gore or Kerry. The first has made himself out to be an expert on Global warming, (and of course, the inventor of the internet!?) but he has no qualifications for that position. As a matter of fact, he produces WAY more carbon than the average person, yet he chides us for the way WE live! Kerry couldn't make a decision without first checking with all his advisors, and we all know about his flip-flopping. So, yes, I am glad I voted for Bush both times. If the next President is someone I disapprove of, then I will continue to do what I have been doing, and that is to pray that God will help ALL of our leaders make the right decisions. If everyone in our country joined me in that prayer, then we would have a great country! Will you join me?

When my younger son was in Webelos, we tried the egg in an orange peel breakfast. No one (including the leaders) liked it. It had a burnt orange taste to it! Maybe someone else has had luck with it, but my guys voted to never repeat that breakfast. They loved the biscuits on a stick, but needed reminders to stretch the biscuit really thin around the stick. We wrapped tinfoil around the top part of the stick, so the biscuit would come off easier. All of the boys came back for seconds on the biscuits. Have fun!

I'm slow in returning Dan Kroh's answers, but here goes: I wouldn't say I felt a "calling" to be a Christian. In order to go to heaven, people need to make a conscious choice to accept Jesus Christ as their personal savior. Just "feeling called" to be a Christian isn't enough. As a human being, I struggle daily with trying to live like a Christian. It isn't easy! I have to make choices every day. If only it were so easy as to simply be a calling... I don't know very many atheists, but the few that I do know would laugh if any one supposed they felt "called" to be an atheist. They have explained to me in a factual way, not a "feeling" way, why they don't believe in God. Dan, I understand what you mean by the majority not really "getting" what it's like to be discriminated against. I know I don't have very many situations at all, where I am left out, so it is harder for me to "get it." The only situation that comes to mind is when I was in High School, and didn't believe in under age drinking. ALL of my friends went to the drinking parties, while I stayed at home. That was my choice. Sure I felt lonely, but I didn't feel discriminated against because they insisted on having alcohol at their parties. I didn't feel that they should leave the alcohol out of the parties, for MY sake. I certainly wished they would, but never expected them to cater to me, the minority. Yes, I was a total nerd and "goody two shoes". My sister used to say I was so sweet, I gave people cavities!

It would be a good idea to check out your Council's website frequently. As a former Pack CC, this was invaluable to me in keeping up to date with Council events. You'll want to be sure to give dates and other info. for all Council events that relate to your Pack. My other advice is to run the meetings in the way that is most comfortable for you. I tried to leave room after each item on my agendas, for people to take notes. If you are really organized, you could e-mail your agenda to all attendees a day or two before the meeting. I only managed to do this a few times, but it did speed up the meeting, as everyone had a chance to think about the items ahead of time. Good Luck, try to have fun, and give yourself a BIG pat on the back for stepping up to do this for your son!

I agree with fgoodwin and John-in-KC. Thanks for pointing out what is important here. In Merlyn's defense, I would agree with him if this were a group that arbitrarily decided, "hey, let's exclude atheists." However, this is not the case. Venturers, being part of BSA, already had the clause that members must have a belief in a God. The atheist student was denied membership to the Crew, since he doesn't believe in God. This same student could still benefit from the services of Safe Ride, he just couldn't provide those services to others. Since the Crew (BSA) was providing insurance, they certainly couldn't cover a non-member. If this student would be denied the right of using Safe Ride's services, then that would be discrimination and would be wrong. However, not being able to be a provider of those services, does not constitute discrimination as the student made the conscious choice to not believe in God. I wonder why an atheist would want to join an organization which believes in something so completely against his own beliefs. As a Christian, I would not want to join an organization that insisted that I denounce my belief in God. I wouldn't cry "discrimination!", I just wouldn't join.

Gonzo, I admire all you have done to try to keep this boy in scouts. I think we all know, however, that the boys who have parents who are supportive of scouting are the ones most likely to stay in the program. I was disappointed when 2 of my 2nd year Webelos didn't cross over to Boy scouts, but I know they wouldn't have lasted, since their parents only grudgingly brought them to Cub scouting events. A few other boys who did cross over probably won't last beyond this summer, because, again, their parents aren't very supportive. For the boy's sake, I hope everything works out. But you can know that you did more than most would have, to try to help him out.