funscout

I agree with ScoutLdr and ASM857 that welfare abuse is and has been a problem for a long time. I also know that there are people who truly need it. One family I know of is an example of both sides. A man I used to work with, was working as a teacher Aide by day, and a waiter at night, while going to school to better himself. When his class load became too heavy, he had to give up one of his jobs, and he accepted govt. assistance for his wife, 2 kids and himself. As soon as he finished school, he got off welfare, and supported his family of four by himself. His sister, however, chose to have a baby (by a different father) every few years, so she could get money from the Women, Infant, Children program. She readily admitted that that was why she kept having babies out of wedlock. I also know of several families whose kids receive free lunch, and yet these families have cable TV, a TV in every child's bedroom, one or more video game systems, and many other things that my family does not have. If those same families would be willing to give up cable TV, they could then buy their own kids' lunches. I, too am disgusted with people who think the govt. owes them social security money. After all, who is the govt? It is all of US! I know my parents didn't rely on social security, and neither will my family. Obviously some people truly do need help, but unfortunately the majority of people who take from the govt. don't really need it, and/or wouldn't need it if they simply made responsible choices in their lives.

Here in the Midwest, I've been told "Merry Christmas" in every store where I have shopped lately. I didn't even initiate it, the clerks, did.

LisaBob and Eammon, You are absolutely correct that people from both political parties can show compassion for their fellow man. I was simply trying to make the point that while Republicans are typically assumed to be selfish and Democrats are assumed to be the only ones who care about others, that there are exceptions to to that way of thinking. I'm glad you two realize that, too!

Good one, OGE!

Eammon, You may have misunderstood me and thought that I don't advocate helping the needy. I DO advocate helping the TRULY needy. Personally, I don't know of anyone who does not advocate taking care of the truly needy. In this and other threads I have told of how my fellow Conservative Christian church members (mostly Republican) help others on a daily basis. I took time away from my own family when my best friend was dying of cancer. My kids and husband didn't see as much of me as they should have, during that time, but my friend's kids had a greater need for me, so that's where I put my time and energy. I know it's a popular notion that only Democrats care about the needy, because they constantly tell us that they care. The people I hang out with help others without feeling the need to tell everyone about it, so I guess that's part of the reason we don't get "credit" for caring for needy. One lady who used to go to my church is quite liberal and is constantly in our small town newspaper for her "do-good" acts. I'm happy that she does help others, but I know of many more people who do WAY more than her, but don't seek the limelight, and thus are never publicly recognized for their work. So, what I am trying to say, is that most conservatives (at least all the ones I personally know) follow God's direction to help those who need it. We just don't ask for applause. We all know that there are plenty of areas that could and should be cut out of govt. spending. Both Republicans and Democrats need to work on this. The national endowment for the Arts is one area that should be privately funded (if at all!) Also, although I'm a supporter of small farmers, there are too many situations where wealthy people who own farm land are given money not to farm, when they weren't even going to farm anyway! Those are just two examples, and I'm sure there are lots more that I don't even know about. So, please don't advocate tax increases when spending cuts can be made first.

LisaBob, Saddam Hussein was given many, many chances, and was given warnings, so he knew what the consequences of his actions/inactions were. How many more warnings should he have been given? Unfortunately, Bill Clinton gave Osama Bin Laden "one more chance" and didn't take him as prisoner when he had the chance. After all, that would have made America look bad in the eyes of other countries. So, instead Bin Laden went on to orchestrate the nightmare of September 11, 2001. We will never know how many other terror attacks were thwarted by our going to war against Saddam Hussein. I'm glad we didn't wait around to find out. Hey, I don't like war any more than anyone else, and I, too, wish it were over. But war isn't something that you can just say, you know, I really don't feel like doing this anymore. We're in it, so now we need to finish it. I must admit that I have been remiss in not praying daily for a successful end to the war. I hope many others will join me in this effort.

Although I disagree with his politics, I do respect Obama. I am concerned, however, that he will not defend our country. He proudly admits that he voted against the war in Iraq, back when the ONLY info. we had was that Iraq had WMDs, and we all know how suspicious Sadam Hussein was, at not allowing inspectors in his country. I am worried that Obama wouldn't take our national defense seriously enough. We don't know how many attacks on America have been prevented by our going to war in Iraq. All anybody sees is the money and soldiers' lives, which, of course, is tragic, but how many more people (including CHILDREN) could have been killed over the years if our president hadn't been strong on national defense? And for anybody who brings up the kids killed in Iraq, much of that, and possibly more would have happened if we hadn't gone to war. I don't have respect for Hillary. She has just done too many things over the years starting way back when Bill was running for President and she "slammed" stay at home Moms. She, of course came back with an apology when it became apparent that she was a detriment to her husband's run for the presidency. And then of course, sticking with a serial adulterer doesn't speak too highly of her. Hillary is proud of her "35" years of fighting for her causes. Well, I say if she still hasn't succeeded after 35 years, then I don't think she can do it in 4 years. I haven't decided yet who I prefer on the Republican side. I like Giuliani, except for his pro-abortion stance. I haven't made up my mind about Romney and Huckabee, yet. Even though it's considered bad form for a politician to seek God's guidance in government affairs, I will definitely be doing a lot of praying so that I choose the candidate that God wants me to choose. I couldn't vote for Giuliani if his opponent were anti-abortion, but if Giuliani gets the nomination and he and his opponent are both pro-abortion, then that point is cancelled out.

That's good, LisaBob! I'm sure I have plenty of scoundrels in my family tree, but I guess they weren't famous.

I decided to start a topic that shouldn't be controversial, but rather kind of fun. I've been researching my family's ancestry for a couple years and have discovered that I share a common ancestor with both current President George Bush and former President Bill Clinton. Both of my parents, like me, are conservative Republicans, and my Dad, who shares an ancestor with Bush, has had a great time razzing my Mom because she shares an ancestor with Clinton. There are other presidents in our extended family tree, but I thought this was the funniest situation. So, do any of you know of famous politicians who share a common ancestor with you?

Democrats have been raising taxes since way before Fox news. Actually I don't even watch Fox news. I watch very little T.V. these days, as I prefer to spend time with my family. I don't know of anyone else who is worried about taxes like I am, so I didn't get this idea from any hysteria that may or not be out there. It is all my own idea. I am worried about my family, and frankly I have wondered why I never hear anyone else complain about this issue. It has bothered me ever since I got my first paycheck and saw how much the government took out of it. Talk about a shocker! I worked in the schools for 17 years, so I know what it is like. NCLB had the right idea, but not the funding, so I agree that it hasn't helped as much as it should have. However, as a former teacher, I can say that more money would not have made my co-workers better teachers. Some of them were naturally good at teaching, and others obviously chose the profession for the vacations, not for their talents. I feel for you LisaBob, because not everyone lives in an area with good public schools. My husband and I moved to a small town before we had children, because of the good reputation of its school system. I taught in a much bigger city, and I knew I did not want my future kids going to school there. I don't know what the answer is for improved schools. I'm afraid it might take the private sector to improve them, because govt. has certainly been failing at it.

Thank you TheScout, I appreciate your understanding of my position. Even though my "whining" about having to go back to work full time looks petty and selfish to some, I have to do what is best for my family. It is definitely best for me to be at home. Even though my kids would love to have all the material things that their "rich" friends have, any time I have asked them if they wished I were back at work, they say, "No, we'd rather have you home." They remember what it was like when I was stressed out all the time, and none of us wants to go back to that. As for the S-CHIP, I was relieved that Pres. Bush didn't bend to pressure. At the risk of looking like a mean old child hater, he stood up for the people who would have been taxed in order for kids who don't need govt. health insurance to get more insurance. My kids would have qualified under S-CHIP, while at the same time, my husband would have been taxed more to help pay for it. No thank you. We'd rather stick with our private insurance, and let the kids who really need help get the help.

All of you are right. I shouldn't be feeling sorry for myself, and actually, after I thought this through, I realized how easily my problem would be solved. I guess I just had one of my panic attacks! If taxes are raised and I do have to go to work full time, while I'm still a mother of 2 adorable yet very challenging boys, then history will repeat itself, and I'll find myself back at the psychiatrist's office. This time, when he recommends disability, I'll have no choice but to take it. So, after the govt. raises taxes and takes more money from my family, they will then turn around and give money back. It's rather ironic, but at least I see that my family will be okay. One sad note is that my family will then have less money to help others out, as we currently do. Also, as taxes are raised, and families can no longer support themselves, then the govt. will be spending MORE money to help people. Then taxes will have to be raised more. Its' a vicious cycle! I agree that the Republicans haven't figured out the Hand UP program, either. Both sides need to work on that. At the local level, I see fellow conservative Christians giving a hand UP all the time, so I forget that it isn't happening with conservatives at the national level. One of my friends GAVE a car to a family so the parents could get a job and go to work. Instead of just giving them hand-outs of food, they were given transportation so they could get a job and buy their own food! Others have given or loaned money to people so they could go to school to learn a trade and get a job so they can then support themselves. Babysitting services have been offered at little or no cost so a single mom could work and then be able to provide for her own family. I guess our national leaders have a LOT to learn from the local folks. I do know that my problems do not compare to those who have lost loved ones to war or disease or accidents. I would gladly give up my material goods if it would bring my little brother back from his death to cancer at age 12.

Sorry I didn't make myself clear. I think of my husband and myself as a team, so what I meant was when HIS taxes get raised it will affect our whole family.

Read through a few of the past topics and you'll find that many of them have nothing to do with scouting. One current topic that has nothing to do with scouting is the one about whether Mormons are Christians. The whole idea for having a seperate site for Issues and Politics is so people who don't want to read these topics can skip it, and stick with the topics that are solely scout related.

oldsm, I am very sorry for your son's loss of vision. I am also happy that you are not "sue-happy." My family also doesn't believe in suing just because we feel we deserve it. My grandfather died because of a staph infection he got while IN the hospital. I know this happens often. A family friend who is a doctor, privately told my Mom and her brother that they not only had grounds to sue, but would probably win. I am proud to say that my mom and uncle did not sue the hospital. They knew that a lawsuit over this tragic mistake was not going to bring back their father.

My biggest fear about this election is that if a Democrat wins, my taxes will be raised and I will have to go back to work full time. Since I quit my teaching job during the current presidency, my family hasn't had to try to make it on one salary during a Democrat's reign. I'm not just trying to start a big controversial topic, but I truly am very SCARED! I missed at least 10 days of work each school year when I was a working Mom, due to the stress, and should have stayed home more. Lots of women can be workers AND mothers, but I can not do it. My Psychiatrist wanted me to go on disability when I quit my job, but I wouldn't do it, since I have a husband who can support our family. I wish others who take from the government would only do so if they truly need it. I have a friend who is a liberal Democrat on disability, and I know that she DOES need it, so I don't begrudge her for one moment. As a matter of fact, my family helps her, when we can, monetarily. Anyway, for those of you who will be voting for a Democrat, are you willing to put your money where your vote is? I know my family isn't the only middle class family who will suffer if our taxes are raised. Are you willing to help us out? It doesn't make sense for the govt. to take more money from us, only to turn around and offer money back to us when my husband's paycheck is no longer sufficient for our family. My younger son used to think we were going to be rich when my parents die. He didn't know yet about the inheritance tax. He was astounded that we would have to pay a huge tax on money that had already been taxed. One thing that bothers me about current Democrats is that they tend to give hand-outs which make them look and feel good about themselves. They should instead be giving a hand UP, as Jesus says in the Bible. Give a man a fish and he will eat for one day. Teach a man to fish and he will eat for a lifetime.

I always thought Mormons were not Christians since they believe Jesus is just another prophet, not THE way to salvation. For Mormons to be Christian, they would have to personally denounce some of the Mormon beliefs that go against Christianity. Would that make them no longer Mormon? I don't know. I'll have to agree with Mike Huckabee's response to the question of whether or not he believed Mitt Romney was a Christian. Huckabee responded that only Romney could answer what was in his own heart. One thing I have always admired about Mormons is their strong sense of family. I would not have a problem with a president who was Mormon or Jewish, even though I am Christian. I have to confess, though, that given the recent years of hate/terror directed at Christians by SOME Muslims, I would not be able to bring myself to vote for a Muslim. I know that not all Muslims are bad, but I'm still frightened by the past and current terrorism. On a lighter note, I was once seated next to a young Mormon girl on a flight to Utah. When she saw that I was drinking 7-up, she asked if I also drank colas. I told her that the only soda pop I ever drank was 7-up or Sprite. She then asked if I drank coffee. I told her that I didn't like coffee, and she got a huge smile on her face as she exclaimed, "You could be a Mormon!" If only religion and politics were truly so simple!

The elementary schools in my area still let kids dress in costume and have a Halloween party at school. The kids get all sugared up at school, and then come home to get more candy when they go trick-or-treating!

Den Chief training is usually offered at Pow-Wow, and is always offered the weekend before Cub Scout Day Camp, in our area. I didn''t realize Den Chiefs could hold the position while untrained. Now that I know that, maybe we can get more of our Boy Scouts involved. I thought they couldn''t start until they had been through training.

Skeptic, Your reasons are exactly why I started this thread. Some people are unwilling to look at the fact that there MIGHT not be a human cause to global warming. It''s scary to think that some people will only present the human-caused idea, but will not share studies for the other side. I present my own children with both sides of this argument. Hopefully no one out there is pushing political ideas in scout meetings. I stopped my own son when he got into a friendly debate with a fellow scout about global warming. They were just sharing different studies they had heard about, but knowing the politicism of this issue, I told them, "No talking politics during scouts." They can and do discuss this issue outside of scouts. I also hope that merit badge counselors aren''t teaching only one side to this issue. Both sides should be presented, without saying that one is right and the other wrong. Neither side has yet been proven.

LisaBob brings up some good points. I suspect that this man''s reasons for leaving his current Pack could have ended up being similar reasons for later leaving your Pack. You can''t please everyone. Any time we got a transfer, it was because of a move or a scheduling conflict. We almost got a boy whose parents were upset with another Pack. When I very nicely made it clear that I would not listen to any "slamming" of another Pack, and indicated that I had friends in that Pack, the mother ended up pulling the boy from scouts altogether. It was too bad for the boy, but lucky for my Pack and the other Pack. My Pack never turned anyone away, even when we ended up with dens that were way too big. However, you went out of your way to try to help this man find another Pack, so I feel you did all you needed to do. If Irate Parent ends up in your Pack, then Good Luck! You''ll need it. You''ll just have to grin and bear it, like a good scout, even if I.P. doesn''t act like a good scout.

That''s right, Gern, we Americans ARE the good guys! Let''s not forget that even when we disagree with each other, we are all still Americans, and Americans are GOOD! Hey, here''s an idea. Okay, so I''m not a truck driver from Great Britain, but I think I''m still qualified to throw out an unscientific idea. How about if we ask all able bodied people in the world to hold their breath at the exact same time, for 30 seconds or more? Do you think the reduction in CO2 emissions would be enough to bring the global temperature down a notch? Of course, this is just one side of a theory, so feel free to chime in with an opposing view.

I DO look at both sides. If I only looked at the supportive studies, and ignored all others, then I wouldn''t have posted this. Even though I believe global warming IS occurring, I am willing to look at studies that show that it is not. It''s too bad others are not willing to look at both sides. If George Bush had come up with an Inconvenient Truth, I still would not have wanted it shown in the schools, since it is not fact, but theory, and only shows ONE side of the theory. It does not show the scientists'' theories who do not believe global warming is happening. I DO disagree with Bush on some things, such as illegal immigration. Anyone who knows me, knows that I am very disappointed in Bush''s failure to do anything to stop illegal immigration. I also disagreed with some of Bush''s "No Child Left Behind" policies. There are some kids who will never read, write, etc. because they are mentally challenged and I was disappointed that Bush didn''t take that in to account. Perhaps I sound like I am not taking Gore''s position into account, but it''s not his position that I object to the most, it''s the fact that he makes himself out to be an expert, when he is not. He should have looked at both sides of the issue before making his documentary. I would have been just as upset if George Bush had done something like that. Well, I know what I believe, and it''s a free country, so you are free to believe what you will, about me. Isn''t it great that we can even have debates like this? In some countries any opposing views would be shot down, literally!

It''s interesting that some of us are willing to look at both sides of an issue, while others stick to their point no matter what evidence is shown. Based on some studies, I DO believe global warming is happening. Based on other studies, I think maybe it''s NOT happening. I have an open mind on the subject. I am willing to look at ALL studies instead of just one side. It''s too bad Al Gore didn''t look at all the studies before he made his documentary. He is not an expert on this issue and neither am I. By the way, I didn''t realize I was a neo-con. I don''t care what I get called, I know what I am, in my heart. If that''s a neo-con, then I guess neo-cons are good. If neo-cons are not good, then I''m not a neo-con. Oh, aren''t labels fun!? And Beavah, don''t tell me you are a snob and look down on truck drivers? No, I know you aren''t. Sometimes it takes someone who can think outside the box, to state the obvious. I''m reminded of the Emperor''s New Clothes where it took a child to state the obvious. Every one in that fable went along with the idea because an important person said it was so. If Al Gore had instead insisted there was no global warming, I''m sure he would have just as many followers who took his word over that of true experts.

Oops, just as Al Gore wins a Nobel Peace Prize, a truck driver in Great Britain has filed suit to prevent Gore''s film from being shown in Enland''s public schools. Problems with showing this film in the Public schools are: "1. The film is a political work and promotes only one side of the argument. 2. If teachers present the film without making this plain they may in breach of section 406 of the Education Act 1996 and guilty of political indoctrination. 3. Eleven inaccuracies have to be specifically drawn to the attention of school children." You can read about the 11 inaccuracies on Newsbusters'' website: http://newsbusters.org/node/16209/print It''s too bad this didn''t come out earlier, so my nieces in California wouldn''t have been harassed by their teachers when they declining to watch "An Inconvenient Truth" in school. I wonder if we can get this documentary out of U.S. schools, as well.