funscout

Beavah, I understand your point about everyday people who are pro-choice. I would never condemn someone for their beliefs. If I feel they are going against God, then I pray for those people, I don't condemn them. Also, barbers and secretaries don't have the power to change the laws, only elected officials do. That's why I don't vote for people who condone abortion. That doesn't mean I can't be their friend. I do have friends who are pro-choice, and I pray for them. By the way, I actually considered myself pro-choice back when I was in my twenties. Although I was personally against abortion, I didn't feel it was my business what other people did. I was one of those Christians who chose to avoid thinking about the reality of abortion. It wasn't until I saw the ultrasound of my own child, in my womb, that I realized how wrong I had been. I wish someone had spoken up to me back in the 1980s, but whoever God had called to "awaken" me, apparently decided to keep quiet.

I know that my antiabortion views are repulsive to some of you, but I feel called by God to share this story: Many years ago, I almost disobeyed God's call to me when I wanted to keep quiet as fellow teachers discussed the upcoming election. I was one of only a few Republicans in the whole school, so I usually kept my opinions to myself. After all, why would I want to rock the boat when I had to work with these people every day? That day I could barely eat my lunch as I wrestled with God's urging, and my own desire to avoid conflict. Finally, God gave me the courage to do as He wanted, and I stated that I could not vote for anyone who condoned abortion, and that I always voted for the candidate who most closely followed God's laws. Some were quick to say that Democrats were better at helping kids after they were born, which I diagreed with, after all, look at how the welfare program has hurt generations of poor people by encouraging them to remain in poverty. Also, even if Democrats WERE better at helping kids after birth, how did that make it okay to kill kids before they were born? Of course, no one could answer that. I knew that many of my Democrat co-workers considered themselves Christians, so I can only guess that they just didn't allow themselves to think about the reality of abortion. Later that day I discovered why God had been so insistent that I speak up. One of my co-workers privately came up to me and thanked me for reminding her of her Christian values. She admitted that she had never let herself think about abortion, and instead voted for the candidate that she felt would best help HER personally. She told me that she felt ashamed for all the times that she had previously voted for a pro-abortion candidate. I was nearly in tears as I confided to her how ashamed I was of myself, because I had almost done what would have been better for me personally (kept quiet) rather than what was better for all God's children (speaking up.) Now, I know very few people's minds will be changed by my story, but I'm not going to ignore God's call to me this time, either. Whether you agree or diagree with my views, I hope everyone will at least join me in praying that our elected leaders will make the right choices in the eyes of God.

I didn't require my boys to be in scouts, but I did make it clear that since I had made the commitment to be a leader, that I would finish out the year whether they stayed in or not. When my younger son was a Bear scout, he often told me he wanted to quit because he got in trouble at most every meeting. (He has ADHD, and I was his mean Den leader.) I wasn't about to let him stay home alone, so I told him he could quit, but he still had to come to the meetings with me and he could do his homework while we had our den meeting. His older brother was one of my Den Chiefs, and I'll never forget the time that Older Son was helping me set up for a den meeting and I told Younger Son not to look at some materials because I wanted him to be surprised along with the other Cubs. Older son then asked me, "Is he still in Cub Scouts?" I said, "I don't know, let's ask him." Younger son said, "Yeah, I guess I'll stay in Cub Scouts." That same scenario played out a couple more times throughout the year. Now that he's a 7th grader, Younger Son is still in scouts, and occasionally expresses the desire to quit. After a fun meeting or campout, however, he is gung-ho once again. I've learned that his requests to quit are just his way of expressing situational frustrations and once he's calmed down, he realizes he had just overreacted.

On my Mom's side, I share common ancestors with Bill Clinton. On my Dad's side, I share common ancestors with President George W. Bush, through his mom, Barbara's family. I should have tried to go to my long lost cousin Jenna's wedding! I'm related to a few other former presidents and also to Lucille Ball AND her husband, Desi Arnaz. GernBlasten, we are probably long lost cousins, too, as I am also related to a bunch of boring Norwegian farmers!

Most kids think sports uniforms are "cool" and that being in a sport makes them appear "popular," so of course the kids are willing to wear those uniforms. Unfortunately, today's kids do not see scouting as "cool" so lots of the older boys are embarrassed to be seen in public with the uniform on. Personally, I wouldn't force kids to wear the uniform, or you'll lose boys. Instead, have positive incentives for wearing the uniform.

Just to clear things up, this is not a religious issue. I think Brian is just using Protestant vs. Catholic as a way to identify which troop or pack he is referring to. I'm a leader in the "rival" (so-called Protestant) troop, but I have not seen a rivalry from my end. I think it all boils down to failure to communicate between unit leaders. Brian, you know I would be happy to talk with you about any of these issues. My troop, which is not actually Protestant, but a mix of religions, (our CO is NOT a church) started helping out with our charter organization's pancake breakfast because the CO asked us to help. This is not a fundraiser for our troop, but a fundraiser for our CO. We do not receive money from helping, but it does count as service hours for the boys. Brian, perhaps your troop can contact our CO to see if it (our CO) is willing to move the date of their pancake breakfast. I can't help you there, since it is not up to my troop to make that decision. I also happen to know many people who go to both pancake breakfasts, and who would go every weekend, if more were offered! Brian, don't forget that I have sent boys and even a LEADER to your Pack, when I could have tried to talk them into coming to my Pack. At last year's round-up, I even steered a boy from my church to YOUR troop, even though he knew more boys in my troop, and he did join your troop. Leaders in our troop just started a Venture Crew and they have already said they will be sure the meetings don't conflict with your Troop's meeting night in case any of your boys want to join. I guess I see my troop as being scoutlike and Christian and I am sorry you don't see it. Brian, you are the only leader that I know in your troop, but I have always told people who ask about your troop, that "I'm sure they are a fine troop." I really don't know much about your troop, but I still talk about them in a Christian, scout-like manner. It appears that your biggest concern is with the "Protestant" Pack in town. Since their CO is my church, I know many of the Leaders (although this is NOT my former pack). This is only the 1st or 2nd year for the current CM, and he probably did not set up the Round-up last year. So, in keeping with my thinking the best of people, I imagine he didn't realize the unfair advantage he was giving to his Pack by hosting the town's round-up at his church. At least 2 of the leaders of the "Protestant" Pack already have older sons in my troop, so they are just being honest when they say their boys will be coming to my troop instead of yours. That doesn't mean that the boys who don't have older siblings couldn't be convinced to go to your troop. In past years, your "Catholic" troop usually got all the boys from both town packs, and my troop only got boys from the outlying areas. A few years ago, a family from my church broke the trend and came from one of the town packs (Protestant one), into my troop, because my family and theirs are friends. You know how kids tend to follow their friends, well, that seems to be what has happened. Since the Webelos leader and son came to my troop, the other boys did, too. Some of them had younger brothers who have also followed them to my troop. I don't know how to even things out. Like I said, earlier, I actually steered a boy to the other troop last Fall, since I knew we were getting loads of younger brothers and their friends, already. Do we tell boys, "No, you can't join our troop?" because the other troop needs members? I feel all we can do is present the families with information on both troops and let them make their choice. I have already told my former Pack that it's more important that the boys choose a troop that fits them, rather than go to a troop simply because their former leaders are in that troop. I don't want my friends from my old Pack to feel they have to come to my troop, unless that's where they really want to be. Good Luck, Brian, and remember to keep communications open.

Hi Brian, I agree with you that the "Protestant" Pack should not host the round-up at their church. This is unfair to your Pack, as well as the 3rd Pack (my former Pack). I know people at both of the non-Catholic Packs and they are nice people. Have you talked to the Cubmaster about why the round-up got moved to their church? Was the other site not available, or did the CM just not realize that hosting the round-up at his church (which happens to be my church, even though my kids did not attend that Pack) was not fair to the other 2 Packs? When my boys were in Cubs, some of our Pack Leaders sometimes grumbled about the 2 city Packs getting more boys than our "country" Pack. I reminded them that the boys were free to attend any of the 3 Packs. In my experience, most choices revolved around country/city or which night was most convenient for the parents. I didn't happen to see any religious slant on where the kids went. Both of the non-Catholic Packs have Catholic kids in them, and the other troop does, too. Actually, the other troop does not have a church as its CO, and I know there are several Catholic boys and leaders in the troop. So, I agree with you that the recruiting site is unfair, but I guess I disagree about religion being part of the problem. I"m surprised the DE is going along with holding the meeting site at one of the churches. Have you tried talking to the Cubmaster of the 3rd Pack? He might back you up about getting the round-up moved back to a neutral location. As for the "Protestant" pack telling you their boys weren't coming to your troop, could it be because the current boys have siblings/friends in the other troop? There always seem to be last minute switches, so I wouldn't rule them out unless they have family ties in the other troop. Good Luck!

At the cub level, we also found it helpful to have a real live cub scout, in uniform at our table. Of course, be sure to choose a boy who will be a good representative. The youngest boys were usually in awe of the uniform with cool patches on it being worn by someone that they either knew, or at the very least could relate to.

As others have pointed out, there are a lot more organizations besides scouting that are competing for our children's time. We lose many boys from scouting due to parents forcing their kids to choose between sports and scouts. If we can help the parents out, attendance-wise, then we stand a better chance keeping those boys in the program. When I was a DL I was very flexible about attendance, so I ended up with 11 boys still in my den by the time they finished Webelos 2. Some of my boys missed every Den meeting during a specific sports season, but then were back at scout meetings as soon as that season was over. I kept the parents informed of what their child had missed so he could make it up at home if he chose. I also tried to schedule den meetings for times when the majority of the boys could make it. One year we had 2 den meetings on week nights, and the third on a Sunday afternoon. That way the kids who couldn't attend on weeknights still made at least one den meeting a month. During Webelos the parents requested fewer meetings (more sports conflicts were arising), and they liked Sunday afternoons, so we went with 2 Sunday den meetings of 90 minutes each. PACK15, I'm sorry you are feeling "picked on." Try to keep in mind that typing is not as effective a way to communicate as talking face to face. It is so easy for all of us to misinterpret each other on these forums. I guess you can just feel good if you know you are "doing YOUR best" to help the kids "do THEIR best." I can relate to having parents push through awards for their sons, even though the boys didn't earn them. In my Pack, our biggest offender was the CM. We knew his boy didn't really earn all the awards that Dad (who was also DL) said he did, but it wasn't worth the fight to challenge him. Now, several years later, the former cubs have absolutely no respect for their former CM, and yet they are proud that THEY really did do the work to earn their awards. The person I feel most sorry for is the former CM's son. Just imagine what a shock this boy will get when he has his first job and actually has to DO the work. Good luck finding meeting times that work for the majority of your boys, and remember to choose your battles wisely. Even though my fellow leaders and I were disgusted with our CM, he did do a good job with everything else, so it was only his own son who was hurt by his "cheating."

As a female, I would not feel the urge to spit, but I did accidentally do something just as bad when I was a teen at an amusement park. I wasn't sure if I wanted to go on the "Silly Silo," so I walked up to the viewing area to watch. (You stood against the round inside walls of a "silo" and when it got going fast enough for you to be "plastered against the wall" due to g-force, then the floor dropped out.) It looked so funny that I cracked up laughing, and my gum fell out of my mouth down into the spinning silo! Needless to say that decided me right there that I was not going on that ride. I guess I should have stuck around and confessed that it was me who dropped my gum, but I didn't. I wonder what kind of "punishment" I would have gotten from jgeller's troop?(This message has been edited by funscout)

Some of our troop's leaders are too hung up on advancement at camp. Several times, I reminded these leaders that as long as the boys were safe and having fun, then their summer camp experience was a success. Of course, there is nothing wrong with giving gentle reminders to the boys that skipping "classes" or not doing "homework" will result in not earning the merit badge, but ultimately that is the choice for the boy to make. As previously mentioned, this is a great learning experience for the boys. LisaBob, I loved your son's camp stories! My 12 year old signed up for 4 merit badges this summer, and he is not a self-motivated kind of kid. I kept my mouth shut, even though I knew he would regret not having more free time, and he learned a better lesson on his own, than he would have if I had told him 4 would probably be too many for him. He ended up dropping out of Pioneering, and I'm glad no one forced him to continue. During the time that Pioneering met, he was able to go to free swim with his friends, which I agreed was a much better choice for my hyperactive son. My older son had at least one unfinished merit badge at each of his 1st 3 summer camps, but he had fun, and that was more important than completing everything. After all, summer camp is not WORK, it is CAMP!

Make sure ALL the leaders understand the precautions that need to be taken. I remember one Day Camp leader who felt the boys should "tough it out" and refused to allow them to do their fitness activities in the shade even though the temperatures were in the high 90's with high humidity. A couple parents had already begged him to move the little guys to the shade (and we had plenty of room in the shade), but he refused. It wasn't until I casually mentioned that my son often threw up when he got overheated, that he decided it would be wiser to move to the shade. I guess the leader wasn't as tough as he appeared, since the threat of vomit finally got to him! Also, I've often wondered why some people (my boys and I) get overheated quicker than others. I've watched my son drink the same amount of water, at the same frequency as other kids, but he gets overheated before they do. Maybe it's our Norwegian ancestry? My mom, her brother, and her Norwegian mother were the same way.

Instead of saving the games for just one day, include them during the lessons: For nonswimmers who are afraid to put their faces in the water, you could start with ping-pong ball blowing contests. In order to move the ping pong ball forward, the child's mouth must be close to the surface of the water. This helps them get used to the water before they finally attempt going under water. For beginners, I've used hula hoops on top of the water to encourage kids to duck under water, and come up inside the hula hoop. You could play tag in the shallow end, where a child is "safe" while inside the hoop, but they can only stay for 5 or 10 seconds. The hoops that I used did float, but I usually held on to 2 of them so they didn't drift away. For swimmers any skill taught can then be practiced as part of a race or relay race. The relay could incorporate different strokes, or parts of strokes. 1st kid does front crawl, 2nd does elementary backstroke, 3rd kid does sidestroke, etc. Or, 1st person does kick only, 2nd kid uses arms only. Sharks and Minnows is a fun game for swimmers. The Minnows start at one side of the pool, and try to swim to the other side of the pool without the shark tagging them. If a child is tagged, then he becomes a shark, too, until only one boy is left. If the kids are really good swimmers, then this could be done in the deep end, and the sharks would get in some treading practice. Otherwise, it should be played where the kids can still touch the bottom. For non-lesson games: You could do a greased watermelon contest(small, round one.) This is usually reserved for the nonswimmers or beginners, since they can't participate in the swimming relays or cannonball contests. You could do water balloon tosses outside of the pool area, but make sure kids know they have to pick up every piece of balloon! Silly races are always fun. Have the kids "make up" their own stroke, do the corkscrew (alternating between front and back crawl), go feet first, while on their backs (this takes lots of sculling action) "Dive" for prizes. Kids stand in the shallow end and duck under water to find cans of pop or other items that are water proof. You could use dive rings and give prizes based on the color of the ring. Good Luck and have fun!

I bought my son a pair of switchbacks, and when he tried them on, we thought they fit. Then he wore them on his first camp-out, and discovered that when he sat down, they were too tight and he couldn't wear them as shorts, because the hem of the shorts rode up way too high when he sat down. That was the first and last time he ever wore them!

It's good that there are different styles of troops available. For those who are dedicated to scouting above all other organizations, BrentAllen's troop would be a perfect fit. For others, like my boys, a troop that tolerates absences is the only kind that would work. In my school district band and choir are considered academic classes which have some required weekend events. Even my 6th grader had a couple weekend band concerts and competitions that he was required to attend. About the only acceptable excuse for missing one of these events is illness, so both my boys have missed some scouting camp-outs due to band committments. My boys want to be in scouts and band, and I'm not going to make them choose one over the other. Now, my sons have chosen to skip a soccer (or other sport) game in order to go on a scout camp-out, but it's not an option to skip out on academic events. None of our extended family live in the same state as we do, so our boys sometimes miss scout events due to family travels. Again, I'd hate to deny my boys the chance to be in scouts simply because they aren't as regular in attending as those who don't travel, and don't belong to other organizations.

Wow, I can't imagine letting my son go on an outing without adult supervision, and he's a good kid who always tries to do the "right" thing. He'll be 15 this summer, but there is no way I would let him stay overnight alone, even at our house. Add other kids in to the mix, and I definitely wouldn't let them have an overnighter without adults. I'm surprised the BSA lawyers would allow children to camp with no adults present. I can just imagine the lawsuits if one of the kiddos got hurt or lost. I'm just curious, would any of you who are willing to let your son camp alone (with other kids) in the wild, allow them to be home alone overnight (with other kids)? My parents would never have allowed either scenario, despite the fact that we were also "good" kids and scouts, too.

CalicoPenn, That is horrible what happened to the young man you are counseling! Those scout leaders who perpetrated AND condoned what was done, should be removed from scouting. They are the ones who should be stripped of their patches! I don't see any relationship to this topic, however. I agree with the fact that if Muslim women are following their faith by exercising away from the eyes of men, then why are the Muslim men not following their faith by making sure they don't put themselves in the presence of women in skimpy outfits? Personally, I would prefer to have ALL men and women segregated by sex when they exercise, but that's just me, with my old fashioned morals. Women's libbers would have a huge fit if anyone suggested that, so I believe the men are justified in claiming that Harvard's policy is sexist. I, too, don't understand why the U.S. is expected to change policies for people with differing cultures, when the countries that those people come from would not change for us. As a matter of fact, I would be jailed if I dressed like an American woman in some of those countries. I'm not saying that we are justified to act as intolerant as they do, but then why do the Muslims believe they can force us to change for them, when they would never return the favor?

Last year was my first year at summer camp and I kept my sons' medicines with me, rather than turning them in to the nurse. After hearing about previous years when my older son couldn't take his nightly asthma pills because the Health Lodge closed before the scoutmaster could get there, I decided I would keep it all with me. I kept the pill bottles with me at all times, which was easy to do, since I carried a backpack. I didn't want to leave them in my tent, even locked up, so I just carried them with me. I do understand that why the boys shouldn't keep prescription medicines on their own, since there could be other kids who decide to try those pills. But, I don't understand why each troop can't keep the medicines in a locked box at their campsite. Every morning, or more often, if needed, we could turn in a record (to the health lodge) of what each child has taken in case an emergency comes up and that information is needed.

As a parent, I approve of the graduated driver's license programs. my older son will be driving in a couple of years, and I want to be sure he has minimal distractions while he is still an inexperienced driver. Although the Safe Rides program did help keep drunken teens (and innocent people who could have been hit by these drunk drivers) safe, I agree with LisaBob that I would not want my boys driving a drunken teenager home. As I said, distractions must be kept to a minimum for new drivers, and a drunken teen in the back seat would be a huge distraction!

Thanks for the article, hops, that was quite an eye opener! To think that so many military people died during peace time is astounding! Calico, you forgot to list the sources for your statistics.

Instead of spreading out the caucuses and primaries, I wish all 50 states held theirs on the same day. That would give every person a chance to have their say, rather than the later states only getting to vote for whoever was still left in the running. Maybe after that BIG day, another one-day (every-state) caucus/primary could take place, with the top 3 candidates. My son's 6th grade class did a mock caucus yesterday. It was funny to hear how some of the kids made their choices. The kids were told where to stand, in the room, in order to show support for each candidate (both parties at the same time). Apparently, some of the supposed Republicans switched to a Democratic candidate, just to be with their friends, and of course the reverse happened, too. Some kids took up for Fred Thompson just because he was an actor. The winners of this 6th grade "caucus" were Obama and Romney.

LisaBob, Is your scout Catholic? If so, then a Sunday service led by scouts and scouters would not "count" as mass for him. If the mother is unwilling to pick her son up herself, either early Sunday morning, or even Saturday evening, then that is her problem. I hate it when my fellow Christians act so un-Christian like! If the mom pulls her son out of your troop then it will be his loss, but probably a relief to your troop! I don't know where people get the idea that Scouting is a Christian organization. Even though my brother was a boy scout, I didn't know about the religious aspect of scouting until my own boys started Cub Scouts.

I agree with Beavah that a religious symbol, by itself shouldn't be offensive to anyone. However, when someone takes a religious symbol and uses it in a mean spirited, disrespectful, or disgusting way, then that is offensive. It doesn't matter if the artist was Christian or not, it still offends me that the cross was used in a disgusting manner. I would be disgusted if a symbol from ANY religion had been used in this way. I would also be offended if the USA flag had been treated in a disrespectful manner. I am not against promoting art, but I think that government funding of artists is an example of "pork barrell" spending. It just added insult to injury when it came out, in the 1990's, about some of the extremely offensive pieces of art that were being funded. I recall that one was a portrait of the Virgin Mary with elephant dung thrown on it. Another was of one man urinating into the mouth of another man. If a child had done "art" like this one at school, he would have been reprimanded and probably sent for psychological counseling. But, since this was an adult who called himself an artist, we had to accept it as "art." I would much rather have the money that went to these "artists" go to worthy causes such as helping the poor, homeless, disabled, etc. Even artists that most people don't find offensive should not be getting tax payer money when there are too many other truly needy people in our country.

Bevah, I didn't mean Clinton was responsible for 911. Only Bin Laden and his gang were. I simply pointed out that Clinton was offered Bin Laden, but didn't take him. 911 wouldn't have happened if he had taken Bin Laden, but that doesn't make Clinton responsible for it. Saying someone could have prevented something doesn't mean that he/she caused it to happen. Yes, they would feel guilt over not preventing it, but they didn't cause it. Does that make sense? Now, what do you think the outcry would have been if Bush had been president when Bin Laden was offered, and turned down? People are so quick to criticize him for minute problems, so can you imagine if he had been in Clinton's shoes? I don't understand why Clinton gets, "It's okay, Bill, it was a simple mistake," while we all know Bush would have been figuratively crucified by the media. I, too criticize Republicans when I disagree with their policies. I feel Bush has been too soft on illegal immigration. He also didn't cut spending like a good Conservative should have done. I don't think Beavah needs to apologize for stating his views. I disagree with them, but that's no reason to need an apology. Of course, I would prefer that everyone debated in a civilized manner, but this is politics, so a civil debate is kind of an oxymoron.

local1400, I think the guy/gal you're thinking of is Rue Paul.