funscout

For those of you who insist there were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, what do you call the chemical weapons Saddam Hussein used to kill MASSES of Kurds? I'm sure the left-behind relatives of these dead Iraquis are seethiing with anger over people who claim that their loved one's deaths were not a massive trajedy.

Bobanon, I am a conservative Christian who is dismayed by the hatred that some Christians spew. I do not watch televangelists for that very reason. If everyone would just ask themselves, "What would Jesus do?" (maybe the televangelists need one of those bracelets?) then there would be no hate in this world. I am not a biblical scholar, but here are some verses that all angry Christians should review: Matthew 5:43-45 (this is Jesus speaking) "You have heard the law of Moses says, 'Love your neighbor' and hate your enemy. But I say, love your enemies! Pray for those who persecute you! In that way, you will be acting as true children of your Father in heaven." (This is from the version of the Bible that is called "The Book." I find it much easier to understand than other versions.) We have an awesome pastor at my Methodist church. He calls himself a "chocolate pastor in a vanilla church." Yes, he is black, and 99% of our congregation is white. Bobanon, I'd love for you to speak with him. Here is an example of how he reached a surly teen that he had never met before. While standing outside our church enjoying the weather, one day, Pastor saw a sullen looking teen walk by. Being the friendly, loving person that he is, Pastor called out, "Hello there!" Teen gave him a dirty look and kept walking. Pastor, in a joking voice, called out, "What, you're too cool to talk to this Pastor?" The teen then said, "I don't believe in any of your *!@#!" Pastor responded, "Well, I believe in you." That got Teen's attention. He stopped and asked, "Why would you believe in me? You don't even know me!" Pastor said, "I believe in you because I believe in a God who loves you and believes in you." From this simple exchange, a boy's life was turned around. The teen asked to come in and talked for 45 minutes to our Pastor. He has since been e-mailing Pastor and is enthusiastic about learning about a religion that would have people love him despite how unloveable he sees himself. I love going to our church!!!! So, Bobanon, please don't think ALL conservative Christians are hateful. Please remember that Christians ARE human and we all sin at times. That's why Jesus' gift of forgiving our sins is such an awesome, mind-boggling thing. If anyone out there is interested in learning more about Christianity, don't stop if you find a Pastor who isn't acting truly Christian. Keep looking for one like our Pastor. If anyone is interested in e-mailing this wonderful man, just PM me and I'll put you in touch. Not surprisingly, our Youth Group (as well as adult attendance) has grown by leaps and bounds since he came to our church.

Most of the scout "drop-outs" that I know did not drop out voluntarily. They wanted to continue with Cub scouts, but their parents made them choose between sports and scouts. Some families in my community have decided to allow their child to participate in only ONE extra curricular activity at a time. So, if the boy really wants to participate in a sport, they can't also be in scouts. I volunteer at my younger son's school, and it breaks my heart when his former scout buddies come up to me and say, "I wish I could still be in Cub Scouts." All of the Packs that I am familiar with stress the values 1-9, and any boy who doesn't go on to Boy Scouts is usually one who is over-involved in other activities. I've seen sad faces on some Webelos 2 boys at the Blue and Gold, because their PARENTS have decided that they are done with scouts.

Eammon, Your post reminded me of a summer camp I attended and at which I later became a counselor. Although it wasn't a scout camp, water conservation was highly promoted. We were all allowed a 2 minute shower! It's not quite as bad as it sounds, as that's 2 minutes of water time. We learned to turn the water on just long enough to get wet, then turned it off while shampooing and soaping up. Then we turned it back on for rinsing. I wish I could get my own boys to take such quick showers!

I attended my first Camporee when my older son was a 4th grader. The troop had one boy cooking for everyone because he wanted to finish his cooking merit badge, and there weren't that many of us. I don't know if this boy succeeded in getting his badge, but I do know that we were all HUNGRY the whole weekend. Although his menu was fine, the amount of food he provided per person, was hardly enough to satisfy my 9 year old or me. The older scouts and men had to be starving! So, the next year, when my son's den mates came to Camporee, I advised their parents to pack some food of their own since we had gone hungry the year before. Well, this time the boy who cooked made not only excellent food, but PLENTY of it. The other parents must have thought I was quite a PIG, to have felt the need to bring extra food. LOL!

Lisabob, The sod surfing reference came about because of a scouter who posted his troop's website on the following thread: "Hippa Compliant Medical Authorization and Record Release." He posted this as a help to others, but in providing his troop's website, it was discovered that they do an unsafe activity that is loosely associated with BSA. Sod surfing (this was new to me, too) involves boys sitting on wooden pallets that are towed behind a truck. The truck then pulls them across a grassy field, at up to 45 mph! Needless to say, that thread turned to safe scouting practices, and the issue of how much personal information to give out on forums. A staffer has since removed the troop's website from the original post.

Jansennil, The whole Pack gave this family many thanks for the big sale. The Treasurer and I are the only ones in the Pack who know about the "almost" financial crisis. If they would have turned in the money on time and not bragged that their son set his goal and went out and met that goal, I would have no problem with this situation. (I did wonder, though, if it was okay to re-sell the popcorn. That wasn't a complaint, just a question.) T Thank you, everyone for all your comments on this situation.

Awesome story! It gave me goose bumps just reading it!

I just thought of something else. After you make your first troop visit, you could look at their schedule, so you'll know if a night you have in mind for a "pop-in" visit would be a good night to show up. I guess I've already done a few unplanned visits, myself. My younger son and I have stayed and hung around a few times when I chatted long enough with a leader that it didn't make sense for me to drive home only to turn right around and come back.

Brian, in addition to troop meeting visits, you and your son will be welcome to attend Camporee and Klondike Derby next year. This year, my son was the only one from our den who went to both and he came back to the den meetings all excited and talking them up for next year, when they are 5th graders. Since you and I are in the same community, I can tell you that this past Fall somebody at Council decided to NOT let 4th graders attend Camporee. My son was very upset, because his older brother had attended as a 4th grader 3 years before. I wasn't going to push the issue, but I did call to ask why the change in policy. It's a good thing I called, because I was told that one person made the decision and no one else agreed with it, so they told me to go ahead and take my son. Our troop was happy to have him along. 4th Graders are also welcome in our district at Klondike Derby. They do not compete, but they (and a parent) walk with a Boy Scout Patrol and get to participate in most everything the Boy Scouts do. I'd highly recommend taking your son next year, so he'll have an idea of what he'll be doing as a 5th grader, when he does get to compete against other Webelos 2 dens. I hadn't planned on taking my den of 12 boys to visit a Boy Scout meeting this year, because the parents are still trying to get used to the idea of Webelos. I was afraid I would just end up confusing them! My son, of course has already been to some meetings since he has an older brother in the troop. With my older son, it didn't occur to me to try out both troops in town. We just visited the troop that our Pack feeds into because we knew many boys and leaders in that one, but only knew a couple boys in the other one. I'm definitely going to plan visits to both troops with my current Webelos, so they'll have a choice. Also, it will be nice to see how other troops run things.

Thanks for your help, everyone. I'll be sure to tell my den to stand at attention, but not to salute when it's their turn for Color Guard.

Ed, I'm 99% sure the family will sell the popcorn for the actual amount. I really don't think they would try to profit financially from this. It seems to me they were just trying to make sure their son made the goal he set, but as Cubmaster Randy said, "What is the lesson being learned here?"

Yes, I've had the same problem.

Actually, most of the people I know in my area (NW Illinois) refer to a BADGE when talking about a badge of rank, such as Tiger, Wolf, 1st class, Star, etc. But when talking about activities (like Klondike Derby, Pinewood Derby, Camporee, etc.)we say PATCH. Also, Council and troop/pack designations are called PATCHES. I don't know if other US areas make this distinction.

The necessity of showering after Lake swimming would depend on the particular lake. The lake (actually more of a pond) near my home is always full of algae, so I require my boys to shower after we swim there. I even made my son's friends shower when he had them over for swimming and a sleep over. I didn't want them going home the next day stinking of dried algae! My parents' cabin in northern Minnesota is on a very clean and clear lake. People are amazed that they can still see the bottom of the lake when we're out to a depth of 5 feet or so. We never feel the need to shower after swimming. As a matter of fact, before the cabins got indoor plumbing, all the cottagers washed their hair and bathed in the lake!

"The Webelos Leader Guide" also talks only of Webelos DENS, never of Webelos PATROLS. I didn't see anything in this book or in my son's Webelos book about choosing a patrol/den emblem, but our Pack has been doing this for a while, so my son's den wanted to choose a den emblem, also. More than one Pack feeds into my older son's troop, so my younger son won't necessarily still be a Cobra when he crosses over.

Yes, LisaBob, that is exactly why they bought the extra popcorn. That's why I was dismayed when Dad bragged at the Pack Meeting about how his son set himself a goal and he went out and met that goal.

I'm so glad I kept my sons' old Wolf books. My 12 year old needed to wear a tie to a band recital, and I couldn't remember how to tie one! My husband travels for work, so I was on my own for this one. When I looked in the Wolf book, I found the elective "Tie it Right," that I had remembered. Our crisis was resolved, thanks to Cub Scouting! Any other stories of scout skills coming in handy later in life?

Firecrafter: Our troop leaders never sign off anything for their own son. I'm not sure if this is an official rule or not, but I think it's a good one. If most of your boys and leaders are related, then that could be a problem finding a non-relative to sign off. We don't have any nephew or grandson relationships at the moment, but I would think that they also would be encouraged to go to a non-relative for sign offs.

That's a good idea to check with the school district's scedule of acitvities. Our district tends to have sport and/or music activities EVERY weekend, so there is never a weekend when ALL scouts can attend a scout activity. But, we do steer clear of the Big school activities, which helps. Just this morning I had to take my son to a band recital in our town, and then had him change clothes in the car (I know, bad Mom!) so he wouldn't miss too much of the First Aid Merit badge clinic that he had signed up for in a neighboring town. (okay, I know that's ironic that I would let him risk injury while we were on the way to a First Aid clinic!) Our troop makes sure to offer some camp-outs close to home so the boys who have school activity conflicts can attend at least part of the camp-out. I personally think our school district goes overbaord with the Sports and Music programs, but they don't listen to me!

I was glad to see someone say to keep scout hats on during the pledge. My pack used to do this, but at some point someone insisted that ALL hats come off. I will let them know that uniform hats should stay on. Another question we have is whether or not the boys in the color guard should salute. I thought they should salute (all except the ones holding the flags), but other leaders tell them to stand at attention and to not salute. Which is correct? Cubleader6, I'm glad you started this thread, because I obviously have questions, too!

Thanks for the input, I promise I'll quit worrying since this is over and done with, and it did turn out okay. This family doesn't have much extra money, so I don't know where they came up with the $1,500, but as you said, it's their business, not ours. Our initial concern was that they did turn in the $2,500 that their son sold as orders, but missed the deadline to turn in the remainder of the money (the $1,500). Our treasurer asked them 3 weeks in a row to turn in the money, and that's why we were nervous. Our Pack had already paid for the popcorn and we wanted to be reimbursed. I, too have bought popcorn to give as gifts. I have no problem with families buying popcorn to give away. My concerns were that we might not have been reimbursed, and I didn't know if it was ethical to re-sell the popcorn. Our Pack has been "stuck" with smaller orders before, but this is the first time that we were almost stuck with a large amount of money. And, yes, we are thrilled to have the money that this boy's $4,000 popcorn sale generated for us.

From E.T. Homesick camper: Phone home! SM, relaxing in chair at camp: I'll be right here.

That's exactly what the Treasurer and I were worried about!

Congratulations on becoming CM! Your heart is definitely in the right place to do a good job with this. As far as asking for volunteers, I think all Packs struggle with this. The only way we ever get "volunteers" is to directly ask a person, (after we've made a general announcement that didn't net anyone.) We've also tried having each den provide parent helpers for a particular event, or asked for at least one parent from each den to help with every event. Good Luck and have fun!