funscout

Longhaul, no offense taken. I'll try to answer your questions. Christian values come from the Ten Commandments AND from Jesus' teachings. Since one of those commandments tells us not to kill, Christians and Jews are supposed to value all life. If a Christian disobeys a commandment, it doesn't make him no longer a Christian. He should repent, but he is still a Christian if he continues to accept Jesus as his saviour. When I was previously pro-choice in the case of rape victims, I didn't allow myself to think of the baby as a real baby. I guess it was sort of a Scarlet O'Hara situation, "I'll think about it tomorrow." My problem, however, is that I avoided thinking about it until my own pregnancy when I first saw my baby in utero. That's when I felt ashamed for having previously denied the truth that abortion is the killing of a child.

So maybe there is still hope for me. I'm planning on crossing over to Boy Scouts with my younger son next year. Or, better yet, maybe my boys will love cooking so much that I won't have to do any more of the cooking at home!

Longhaul, You are right that it isn't just a Christian value that determined my view on abortion. As a Christian, I should have been anti-abortion all along, yet I chose to go against my religion when I was younger. After viewing my unborn child on ultrasound, it was a human choice, not a sudden, "that's right, I'm a Christian, so I have to believe this way" kind of choice. When you see Christians with different values it is because some of us have gone against the values. That doesn't make them right for Christians, it just means that we have "strayed" from our beliefs. The bottom line is that a Christian is a person who has accepted Jesus Christ as his/her personal saviour. We are supposed to follow the Ten Commandments, but we are human, and so, not all of us follow them like we should. John in KC: I am not quite as black and white as my previous post appeared. If the life of the mother was in jeopardy due to her pregnancy, then I do believe she (or if unconscious, then, her family) should have the right to choose whether or not she dies in order to save the baby. This goes against my Christian values to take the life of an innocent baby, but I don't feel it's my right to sentence an innocent woman to death, either. I remember a case in the news several years ago, where a woman refused to have an abortion even though her pregnancy was killing her. She had other children at home, so I felt she was wrong to not sacrifice the baby in order that she would be around for her other kids. She did die, and if I remember correctly, I think the baby died, too. I could be wrong about that, but either way, her already born children were then forced to grow up without their mother. This was a no-win situation. If I had been her place, I would have hated to have to make that decision. How awful to have to live with the knowledge that you allowed your own baby to be killed. But, then, how awful for all of your children to grow up mother-less. I, too, agree that more needs to be done to help women who choose to bear an unwanted child.

My brother loves to cook, and my mom maintains that he acquired his love of cooking from being in Boy Scouts. My sister and I were both girl scouts, (through 7th grade), but neither of us likes to cook. Do any of you current or former Boy Scouts also enjoy cooking due to your experiences in Boy Scouts?

I guess I shouldn't complain about having to attend training that wasted my time, because our trainings are free. It's hard enough to get our Cub Scout leaders to take the time to get trained. I can't imagine what would happen if they had to pay for it as well!

Longhaul, I think our religious upbringing plays a big part in our current values, but I'm sure many of us know people who have switched to a religion very different from their parents'. I know of Christians who have converted to Judaism and Buddhism. I also know of Jews who have converted to Christianity. As far as the abortion issue goes, I'd like to throw in the perspective of a female. Although I now am a conservative Christian, my views were more moderate in my younger days. I have always been opposed to abortion, but before I had kids of my own, I was actually pro-choice. I didn't want to see anyone choosing abortion simply for birth control means, but I reasoned that a woman who was raped shouldn't be forced to carry an unwanted child. Now, however, I see things differently. When I became pregnant with our first child, I had the opportunity to view the ultrasound of our son. It was amazing to see a CHILD inside me, not just a lump of tissue. That's all it took for me to understand how terribly wrong any abortion is. And then, later, when I first felt my child move inside me, I was ashamed at myself for ever thinking that abortion could be rationalized in some situations. I never want to view a video of an abortion, but I would hope that all people who approve of abortions would get the opportunity to see an ultrasound of a real live baby in utero. It truly is a miracle.

Our pack has found, also, that making a general announcement doesn't usually garner any volunteers for us. We've had better luck talking directly to a person and telling him/her that we feel he/she would be great for the position. If your pack has extra leader books, be sure to offer those. It might be worth the pack's money to invest in extra books so the new leaders have reference material right away. I had to buy all of my own books, but I have made sure, since then, that all new leaders have a copy of the current leader's manual.

That's great! Were these co-workers former scouts? It's nice to hear positive stories like this one.

I tried to do this project with my cub scouts one year. They planted carrots and strawberries in a corner of my yard. Unfortunately, before we could harvest, we got new neighbors who accidentally dumped a huge pile of dirt right on my little garden! They were only trying to level out their yard, but most of the dirt ended up in our yard. The Cub scouts were disappointed, and I guess I lost my motivation to try again the next year. It is a great idea, and would be an excellent service project for cubs or boy scouts.

I took Tiger Leader training when I became my younger son's Tiger Leader. I had already experienced Tiger Cubs with my older son (but not as the Den Leader), and had taken Cub Scout leader training when I was Den Leader for Older Son's Wolf and Bear dens. I did not learn anything new at the Tiger training, and ended up answering questions that the instructor didn't know. At the time that I took Tiger Training, I was also Older Son's Webelos DL. I couldn't take both trainings at the same time, and since I had 2 co-leaders with the Webelos den, (one of them did get trained) I felt I should do Tigers. It was very difficult being the leader of 2 dens, so I dropped my Web. DL position for Older Son's second year, and just did Wolf with Younger Son. The "trained" Web. DL continued to call me with questions about how to do things and what activities to do! This Fall, I took Webelos training, (I'm DL for younger son's den) and once again, I learned nothing new, and ended up answering the new leaders' questions. I wish there were a better way for "experienced" but not "specifically" trained Scouters to earn their training.

Could someone also educate me (hopefully in one or two sentences) as to what exactly a Unit Commissioner does. How many different units does he oversee in a council? Our UC also held a leadership position in our Pack, but I never knew what his UC duties were.

At 2 of our past Pinewood Derbies, we had one car that failed to meet specifications at check-in. In both cases, the families did not intend to cheat, but had mis-read the rules. Also, in both cases, the other boys were asked to vote as to whether the car should be allowed in competition. The boys were told that if they voted "yes", then they had to accept it if that car happened to win. In both cases, most of the scouts voted to let the scout race. I was so proud of them for not condemning their friends for an innocent mistake. Luckily, neither car won a trophy, but if they had, it would have been awarded to them. These examples were innocent mistakes, however I wouldn't like to see a car raced that was blatantly against the rules. I would agree with Lisabob's ideas in that case. One year my older son got sick on the day of Pinewood Derby. His little brother was racing a car in the Family race, so he and I attended anyway. I went ahead and brought my (then) Wolf scout's car, and asked if it could still be raced. I was prepared to be told, "no", but was pleased that it was allowed. The race coordinators didn't want my 4 year old son to race his brother's car in the scout race, so I recruited the older sister of one of my Wolf scouts. I assured her that she would probably only have to race a couple of heats, but then the car kept winning! It was funny to see a girl amongst the boys, but it had been announced that she was standing in for a sick boy. Luckily, my son's car did not win a trophy, because it would have looked funny to have a scout-less car be a winner, but I did get to tell him how his car did.

I just thought of something else. Some requirements will be fulfilled by activities that the boys do through their school. My son's 4th grade class took a field trip to some nearby caves as part of their geology studies. We were able to count this for one of the requirements for the Geologist activity badge. They also have a wonderful art teacher who has them do clay projects that are fired in a kiln, and several other projects that can count toward the Artist badge. I remember one den meeting when I started to discuss something (I can't remember what, now) and a few of the boys asked, "Do we have to do this when we just did that at school?" After just a few questions from me, I realized they did know the stuff, so of course they did not have to repeat it at the den meeting.

I've actually found Webelos achievements (the activity badge/pins) less complicated than the Bears achievements and electives. In Bears, if you wanted to get the most electives possible, than it was to a boy's advantage to choose short achievements for the Bear rank and use the ach. with more requirements for electives. I personally don't like the way Bears is set up. Record keeping was tricky trying to determine if a completed achievement should be used for Bear rank, or saved for use as electives. My Bear parents never quite figured all that out, so it was up to me to determine how to record ach. and electives to the best advantage for each boy. Once they earned Bear, of course, it was easier, since all remaining achievements worked on had to be used as electives. Another complication, was that the Bear book had changed by the time my younger son was a third grader. Parents who had older boys didn't understand why unused requirements of Ach. used for Bear rank could not be used as electives, when they were allowed when their older sons were Bears. I have an older son, so I could relate to their frustrations. Showman is one Webelos activity badge that is a bit complicated to figure out. It's not hard to do, it's just a pain to have to figure out six requirements to do, while still getting 1 (that wasn't part of the original 6) from each of the three areas (puppetry, music, drama). If you have a Troop that your Pack feeds into, by all means seek "experts" from there. If you are lucky enough to get a Den Chief, his boy scout experience should be a help to you. Also, if your Council offers Webelos camp, you could suggest that to your boys as they can earn activity badges at camp. Another suggestion would be to look through the Webelos book and decide which activity badges you can do as a den. Then give the parents a list of the ones they will be responsible for.

t158sm: Thanks for bringing this topic up. In a different thread, I mentioned that some of the angry posts remind me of road rage, since both are anonymus situations. Although I would like to see everyone be civil and respectful at all times, I do realize that our human weaknesses sometimes get the best of us. In those cases, I really appreciate seeing apologies, after the heat of the situation is over. I know that I have unintentionally offended some people on this forum. I have apologized to those who told me about it, and would certainly want to heal any hurts I may have caused that I don't know about. I'm going to paraphrase an article that I read once (I think it was in Dear Abby) that was about gossip, but it pertains to respect, as well: There is so much good in the worst of us and so much bad in the best of us that it doesn't behoove any of us to talk about the rest of us. I probably haven't quoted that exactly right, but I do like the message.

Maybe this is a new kind of Leap Year, which leaps over one day, instead of adding one!?

Thanks, Dan! I appreciate that we can debate our different beliefs without anger. This is America at its best! You might get a kick out of this story. In my younger days, I would never have been bold enough to talk about Christianity to a stranger or even to a friend who was a non-believer. One of my friends, however, was a different story. My family used to take ski vacations with another family that had 2 teenaged girls the same ages as my sister and me. This worked out great, as all four of us enjoyed skiing together. One year, though, one of the girls decided that it was her Christian duty to preach to EVERY person she came across, so she insisted on riding "single" on the chair lifts, in order to expand her opportunities to preach to others. The three others of us were unhappy that her decision forced us to take turns riding single, now that our foursome was a trio. Sometimes we lucked out and got to ride with a cute boy, but usually we ended up with a middle aged dad or mom (that would be ME in the present!) We three were a bit concerned that the "preacher" in our group would offend her chairlift partners, but luckily, no one ever was so desperate to escape her that they jumped from the chair lift!

Dan, First let me make it clear that I do not believe that the U.S. should be a nation of ONLY Christians. What I tried to show is that it was founded on Christian principles. I didn't realize people would think that meant that ALL founding Fathers were Christians. I wish you could read Marshall and Manuel's book, "The Light and the Glory," because then you would see that by founders, I was referring to people as far back as Columbus, not just the writers of the Constitution. Kahuna, thank you for clarifying what I was trying to say. Our posts aren't always as clear to others as they are to ourselves! Christopher Columbus was quoted as trusting in his Lord, Savior, and the Holy Spirit. I have not read the writings that the quotes were from, but the authors of "The Light and the Glory," who did read it, tell of Columbus' Christianity. That's why I (and Marshall and Manuel) look at it as divine intervention from God, rather than an accident that Columbus ended up in America. Many of you may know that God called the Jews His chosen people, and He called them the Nation of Israel. After he sent His son, Jesus, He then had a nation of Christians. So, I don't find it difficult to believe that He wanted an actual land that would hold the nation of Christians. Just as I told another poster, I am not against you, Dan. We are both entitled to our beliefs. As a Christian, I care about ALL people, so I will add you to my prayer list, too.

Merlyn, You are right that I should not presume to know what God will or will not do. I stand corrected. My feelings stem from the fact that after Jesus came and died for our sins, God no longer asked certain things (such as animal sacrifice) of his people. I won't know until I get to Heaven, why God did or did not do certain things. Also, the Joshua reference isn't completely clear to me, since the verses AFTER the one that states that "They completely destroyed everything in it - men and women, young and old, cattle, sheep, donkeys - everything." read as follows: (Joshua 6:22-23) "Then Joshua said to the two spies, 'Keep your promise. Go to the prostitute's house and bring her out, along with all her family.' The young men went in and brought out Rahab, her father, mother, brothers, and all the other relatives who were with her. They moved her whole family to a safe place near the camp of Israel." (Rahab is the woman who helped Joshua's spies.) I don't know what really happened since the Bible says that everything was destroyed, and then in the next verse has an intact family being brought out. As a Christian, I try to follow the question: "What would Jesus do?" I do not believe He would intentionally harm someone, and that's the way I try to live. I don't know for sure what I would have done if I had lived in Old Testament times. As has been pointed out, Christians look at death differently than non-Christians. When my 12 year old brother died of brain cancer over 20 years ago, my whole family was devastated. I am so thankful my parents had raised me as a Christian, because after my initial anger at God, I was able to see that my beloved brother was no longer suffering, and was in the best place imaginable. It was selfish of me to wish that he stay on Earth, only to continue to suffer. I do not understand why God does not spare the innocent, like my brother. I will someday understand the whole picture when I join my brother in Heaven. How sad for those people who do not look forward to being reunited with their departed loved ones. Merlyn, I hope you realize that I am not against you. As a Christian, I must try to help all of God's children, whether they are believers or not. I do not look down on you or feel angry with you just because you do not believe. I will pray for you, as that is all I can do. The rest is up to you.

It took a while to get through all 12 pages of this post! I don't know how many other "newbies" will add to this, but here's my story: I used to work in the public schools as a speech-language pathologist (or speech therapist, as we used to be called.) I worked with regular ed. students as well as mentally, physically, and emotionally challenged students. It was a challenging, yet thoroughly enjoyable job. I am currently a Domestic Engineer (stay-at-home mom), which also is a challenging, yet thorougly enjoyable job! My favorite job before my "real" one, was working at an ice cream store. My least favorite was detassling corn!

Lisabob, I like the idea of the Scout Spirit trophy. I'll definitely suggest that to our Pinewood Derby Committee. One year we gave out small trophies to ALL non-placing participants, so everyone (not just the 1st-4th place winners) went home with a trophy. The small trophies came with a card that said something like: "fastest LOOKING car", "most colorful car", etc. It took a bit of time to figure out enough different categories and to decide who would get which card, but the boys loved it. The following year we again gave out the small trophies to the non-placers, but we didn't have cards with them. The Tigers were thrilled, but all the returning scouts were not so thrilled with another small trophy. I'm not sure what we'll do this year. If we go with the small trophies again, then I hope they get the cards, too.

Merlyn, If Rooster says he would kill children if God tells him to, does that make him better or worse in your eyes? If he says he would disobey God, does that make him better or worse in your eyes? Since you don't believe in God, I would think you would be happy to see someone struggle and then decide to disobey God. I know I shouldn't presume to know your thoughts, but that's what it appears to me. The example you gave was from the Old Testament. As we all know, times are quite different now than they were before Jesus' time. I can not imagine killing a child just because God tells me to. However, I know that God no longer does that. If you compare the Old Testament books to the New Testament books, you'll see that God also no longer requires animal sacrifices. If I had been alive in the Old Testament days, I would have thought animal sacrifices were normal, but living in the present, I would be appalled to see someone sacfice an animal. Abraham was tested by God (again, in the Old Testament days) and although he was saddened greatly, he was prepared to kill his own son, Isaac, as God had directed him to do. I can not imagine being willing to do that. If I had lived in those days, then maybe I would understand, but I would have to say that I would disobey God if he told me to do that today. I am confident that God will no longer "test" people in that way, so the question is actually a moot point. Also, as most people know, Christians are human beings, and thus, not perfect. Even Peter, one of Jesus' beloved disciples, betrayed Him, not just once, but three times, out of fear for himself. That didn't make him less Christian, it just proved that he was human. You are on my list for my prayers, tonight. And I mean that in a kind and sincere way.

Several years ago, I had the privilege to hear Rev. Peter Marshall speak about Christianity in the United States. His book, "The Light and the Glory," explains how the birth of the U.S. was part of God's plan to spread Christianity. Some of you will turn your noses up at that idea, but it is an excellent book, that brings up history that most of us were not exposed to in public schools. One example of something that Rev. Marshall and his co-author, David Manuel, discovered in their research, was a transcript from Christopher Columbus' "Book of Prophecies." The following is Columbus' writing from that book: "It was the Lord who put into my mind (I could feel his hand upon me) the fact that it would be possible to sail from here to the Indies. All who heard of my project rejected it with laughter, ridiculing me. There is no question that the inspiration was from the Holy Spirit, because He comforted me with rays of marvelous inspiration from the Holy Scriptures... I am a most unworthy sinner, but I have cried out to the Lord for grace and mercy, and they have covered me completely. I have found the sweetest consolation since I made it my whole purpose to enjoy His marvelous presence. For the execution of the journey to the Indies,I did not make use of intelligence, mathematics or maps. It is simply the fulfillment of what Isaiah had prophesied..." So...did Christopher Columbus "accidentally" discover America, or was it divine intervention? This is just one of MANY examples throughout the book that show that the United States was founded on Christian principles. It was such an eye-opener for me, as my public shcool education contained none of the religious history that is so important to our nation. "The Light and the Glory" was published in 1977, so it might not be easy to find today, but it is very worthwhile reading.

Kenk, Thank you for the websites. I like the idea of whistles on a coiled bracelet.

Where do you get orange trash bags? I've never seen any, but I've haven't been looking for them, either.