FScouter

Venturing is the only program that involves both young men and young women. The video tape that accompanies the Venturing Leader Specific training includes YPT for adult Venturing leaders, and a YPT for crew members called Personal Safety Awareness.

Money should not be an evil necessity that troops grudgingly deal with. Of course money is necessary. Earning, budgeting and spending money are life skills that we all have to learn at some point in our lives. Scouting is a good place for boys to get a little practice. Weekly dues for provide income for the troop. Many troops blow off dues as being too much trouble, or set an annual membership fee instead. But weekly dues help instill a sense of responsibility in the boys, and help them feel ownership of their troop. The amount is not as important as is the fact that the boy must set aside some of his personal allowance or personal earnings to pay for his Scouting needs. It is a good responsibility for the troop scribe too. Money-earning events should be planned such that each one has a specific purpose. This helps the boys understand that if they want to do that canoe trip, they will have to first earn the money to buy PFDs and oars. Their money-earning project has a purpose. Id recommend some of the practices found in the Troop Finances chapter of the Scoutmaster Handbook. The Unit Budget Plan and worksheet has a lot of good info too. It can be obtained at the council office or downloaded at https://www.samhoustonbsa.org/Home/Forms/UnitBudgetForm/ .

You might ask the committee what problems they are trying to solve through the list of rules. Perhaps there are other ways to achieve the objectives that might work as well or better. For example what is the thinking behind the "leader ratio" rule? Are there discipline problems? Are the patrol leaders and senior patrol leader lacking in leadership skills? Does the outing agenda have a lack of planning such that the boys run wild? There are approaches to solving those issues other than adding more adults to control a bunch of wild kids.

The rules and guidelines you posted have little to do with Scout Spirit. Scout Spirit is discussed throughout the Boy Scout Handbook. A few excerpts: Scout Spirit refers to the effort you make to live up to the ideals of Scouting. The Oath, Law, motto, and slogan serve as everyday guidelines for a good life. Demonstrate Scout spirit by living the Scout Oath and Scout Law in your everyday life. How well you live the Scout Oath and Scout Law in your life is something for you to judge. You know when you are being kind, when you are helpful and a good friend. You know when you are trustworthy and reverent. You alone know how you act when no one is around to witness what you do. Dont be surprised that when you use the Scout Oath and Law for guidance, others will recognize those values in you and respect you for it. Set high standards for yourself and strive to reach them.

Those that engage in off-color humor need to expect that there will be those who will feel offended and disgusted. While such jokes may be inevitable, what is even more offensive is to blow off a person's personal objection with a comment like "get over it" or "chill out".

Bob brings up a good point about insurance. There is a difference between an insurance policy issued by an insurance company, and self-insurance. Self-insurance is like a deductible. If an auto policy has a $500 deductible, you pay the first $500 and the insurance policy covers the rest. If your health insurance is 80/20, you pay 20% and the policy pays 80%. You could say that self-insurance is no insurance. Insurance policies written by insurance companies are regulated by the state and are legal documents. What kind of insurance agreement do registered leaders have with BSA? If BSA self-insures for the first million dollars, they can specify the circumstance under which they will pay the judgments against members. So, what are those circumstances? What are the rules? What is the policy regarding paying claims? How does BSA decide whether they pay or dont pay? Are we really required to wear the uniform while traveling as was repeated again recently at our council commissioner basic training? Frankly, I want rock-solid insurance that is guaranteed to pay. I want to know exactly what the exceptions are. I want to read the policy. That BSA is a trustworthy organization notwithstanding, Im just a tiny bit nervous if the first million dollars of a claim is paid subject solely to the judgment of BSA. So whats the real story here. Are we covered or not?

Ricks thread is in response to a smiley-face comments in the Mandatory Training thread where it was suggested that corners cut off the YPT card for child abuse is similar to corners cut off the Totin Chip card and it is OK to abuse up to 3 children. The fact that Rick is upset proves that child abuse makes a life-long impact on a child. It may be easy for another to make light of child abuse and it may be easy to tell victims to just get over it. If your neighbors house burned down, would it be funny to joke about playing with matches? If a fathers young boy is run over and killed by a Mack truck, would get over it be an appropriate response? A victims pain is personal. Respect it.

I don't know of any particular policy that addresses uniform disposal. As mentioned in the publications, uniforms should be kept clean, uncluttered, and in serviceable condition. Perhaps you could retire the shirt as part of a flag retirement. Talk about what the uniform represents, and some of the good experiences that shirt had during it's life. Then ceremoniously lay it across the fire. Don't worry about the flag patch. It is a not a flag, it is only a patch, a representation of a flag. Similar to a picture of a flag in a magazine. A picture of a flag is not a flag. The patch doesn't require any particular retirement.

Well, it could be this, or maybe that, or perhaps if we consider X, and of course if Y then all bets are off. We don't know all the facts, we only have one side of the story, therefore everybody withhold your comments? That all information and details are not known is characteristic of virtually every problem, question, and scenario put forth in these forums. We all comment and opine in reaction to the limited information that is presented. My comment simply is that bullying has no place in Scouting. Your mileage may vary. Now excuse me while I go quaff a few Jolts.

Have to agree pretty much with Prairie, and with nldscouts comment about the wife. She does seem bent on keeping her husband in power. As a practical matter its not easy to simply tell her to shove it. Help her re-write it. In doing so she may find that the list could be shortened to one sentence Follow the Boy Scout program as described in the Boy Scout Handbook, Scoutmaster Handbook, Troop Committee Guidebook, and other BSA publications. Some specific comments: A minimum of one overnight adventure shall be scheduled for each month except November, February and April. A minimum goal should be to meet the outdoor activities requirement for the Quality Unit award. That includes 6 activities, plus a BSA long-term camp. Also make it your goal to get the Scouts out for at least 10 days and nights per year. That will meet the minimum requirement for the National Camping Award, and follows the guideline in the Scoutmaster Handbook. It has an entire chapter devoted to the outdoor program and how to make it work. The particular months these events take place shouldnt matter much. Just make sure they happen regularly. One parent from each family must participate in an overnight adventure as a chaperone or driver annually. This does not include Summer Camp. The Troop Committee Guidebook lists the responsibilities of the committee, which includes arranging transportation for all events. Parent participation is fine, but maybe the list should call for a number of registered and trained assistant Scoutmasters instead of chaperones. Selecting and recruiting assistant Scoutmasters is also a topic covered in the Troop Committee Guidebook. Each trip shall have a stated purpose and be approved by the Troop Committee. The purpose of all Scouting events is to achieve the aims of Scouting. New Leader Essentials training covers this in detail. There are 3 or 4 activity scenarios where training participants pick apart the details of the outing and find how those details support achieving the aims of Scouting. There would be no reason why the committee should not be able to approve activities that have these characteristics. There is a chapter on program planning in the Scoutmaster Handbook. All Trips require the attendance of one Trained BSA Leader identified as the "Tour Leader" for the duration of the adventure. Assure the committee that as a trained Scoutmaster, you are committed to following the Guide to Safe Scouting, including the tour leader requirements. Suggest that the list be revised to say Follow the G2SS, instead of singling out only one element. The ratio of 2 adults for every 10 Scouts shall be maintained for all trips. At no time shall a scout be denied attendance because of an excess number of adults. More important than adults is registered and trained assistant Scoutmasters. Ask the committee to select and recruit a few. More important than a ratio is the quality and commitment of the adults that attend. There is nothing in BSA that requires a ratio. One approach you might take with this is to tell the committee that you will happily go along with any rules or lists as long as they are supported by the BSA literature. Ask them to cite the specific sources that support the rules on the list.

Anarchist I must take umbrage at your entire post. It is totally unfair for you to take a 2-3 sentence description of the problem and add your own inventive details to support a position you want to take. You have no more information about the situation with Ralph than any of the rest of us. Thus your brushing off of the problem is no more valid than my conclusion that a boys actions whose mission is to make life miserable for a fellow Scout constitutes bullying. Surely youre not defending actions intended to make life miserable as being honorable or even acceptable? If the word bullying is too strong for you, how about this. Repeated actions taken by any boy for the purpose of making life miserable for another boy have no place in the Scouting program. That kind of stuff goes on enough at school and elsewhere. When a boy joins Boy Scouts, he shouldnt have to put up with that kind of stuff. And a Scoutmaster that thinks that stuff is OK and does not act to stop it has no place in Scouting either. So, Nlscouter has asked what he should do. Based on the information he presented, I would insist that the Scoutmaster take action to stop Ralph from making life miserable for another boy and to direct him to a new mission. Now, if Nlscouter wants to retract his mission statement and leave the sole issue that of the patrol election, Id have a totally different answer.

Training by itself does not guarantee a successful leader. But it is by far the single most important step a leader can take towards being a successful leader. So many, many issues, problems, and questions presented in these forums have answers rooted in the BSA training courses and publications. Perhaps that is why "get trained" is repeated so often as an answer.

Agreeing with nldscout. Whether accident insurance or liability insurance, not following BSA rules does NOT void coverage. Following rules matters big time at the end of the year when the underwriter decides whether or not to renew the policy and what the rates will be. They want minimal risk and work with BSA to minimize risk. One way is to make sure units don't do stupid activities like sky-diving at low altitude or Cub Scouts target shooting with handguns in the Cubmaster's back yard. Filing a tour permit helps weed out stupid activities, and the underwriter will want to see evidence that tour permits are being filed. Following the rules in the G2SS is another big factor in reducing risk. When the underwriter is satisfied the risk level is acceptable, he writes a policy and sets a premium. Consider your personal auto liability insurance policy. Your insurance company looks at your driving record, experience, and claims against you. If the risk is acceptable they write a policy and set a rate. If you accidently bump the car in front of you and he sues, you're covered. If you run a red light and cause an accident, you're covered. If you get drunk, run a red light at 85 MPH and run over an old lady, you're still covered. At the end of the year, your insurance company may or may not decide to renew your policy. Same with BSA.

"And let's face it. Training is preached and pushed in these forums by many (including myself) but it falls short in many aspects." One of the reasons training appears to fall short is that the trainee has expectations greater than what the training course is designed for. One training course does not turn a new parent into an overnight successful competent leader. Even taking Fast Start, NLE, YPT, Cub Specific, and BALOO does not a successful leader make. One needs to investigate resources, read the books, attend Roundtable, and actually work in the position to be successful. One does not take a journalism class at the community college and become transformed into a successful newspaper reporter. The class just gets you started.

I would not consider the national jamboree an "international event" simply because some Scouts from other countries happened to be there. Think about the purpose of the merit badge. What did this Scout learn about world citizenship from attending the national jamboree? Did he meet and interact with any of the world Scouts? Did he visit their camps? Did he take part in any activity that centered around the world Scouts? If so, then I'd say he met the requirement. But mere attendance means nothing.

"You say in your last post 'Clearly the SM was not in the right.' The point I was trying to make was that to me it is not clear, because I have heard only one side of what may be a more complicated story." When people post questions and scenarios in these forums, rarely do we get all the facts, all the background, and all the details. Our conclusions and advice cannot be based on details and circumstances we don't know about. Eamonn for example stated that "Clearly the SM was not in the right". Based on all the information presented, I would agree. Sure, there may be other details and circumstances that might make a difference, but we don't know what they are. We only know what has been presented. Thus, based on the circumstance presented, Eamonn concludes the SM is not in the right. Same thing with the Ralph scenario. I am not condemning a particular boy or SM. I'm stating that bullying in a troop should not be tolerated. It's up to the original poster of that scenario to determine if bullying has taken place or not and decide his course of action. Its not fair to condemn the conclusions and responses of other posters simply because all circumstances have not been revealed. Never will we get the whole story.

It would seem logical that "patrol" activities are for "patrol" members. Adding kids from other patrols erodes patrol identity. If the parent cannot attend without bringing the rest of the family, get a parent that can leave other family members home.

Well, I don't want to be too harsh, but.... after briefly scaning your committee's edict I have three comments. 1. Ask the committee attorney to take off his attorney hat and put on a Scout hat. 2. Toss out the entire edict. 3. Send them all to training.

Welcome to the forums, Captain! Post away. Your guaranteed to get lots of conflicting opinons!

It's unreasonable to expect that posters here will hold their comments until all facts are revealed and both sides have presented their cases and rebuttals. We post reactions based on the one-sided scenario that is presented. If the facts presented point to the adult leader being a twit, I don't see anything wrong with saying so. The unwritten preface to responses ought to be like Eagle said, "if this is truly the case...". Or "Based on the scenario painted, here is my response." Is it really necessary to preface a response with a disclaimer?

No one that responds to Nlscouter's query in this thread has any more information than anyone else, therefore all opinions have equal value. In my book, a boy whose "mission" is to make life miserable for another boy is a bully. Now there may be another opinion that this kid should be tough and take it like a man. My opinion is that Scouting has no room for bullying and if the SM allows it to continue, he has no place in Scouting either.

Insurance coverage is good even if rules have been violated. If you're sued, it's more likely the insurance company will have to pay, but the coverage is still there.

Anybody in the world can sue anybody else. If you get sued, your BSA liability insurance company will defend you. The best idea is to get trained and follow the Guide to Safe Scouting. That will greatly reduce the risk of an accident occurring in first place, plus it will make it easier for the insurance company to defend you. Even if you're found negligent, you have insurance. That's what it's for. A Scout leader would not be removed or asked to resign solely because an accident occurred. But if the accident resulted because the leader intentionally violated G2SS rules or other BSA rules, removal might make sense. Still, you're covered by the insurance. It is also recommended that the unit buy the supplemental accident insurance that covers doctor bills etc. It's cheap, about a buck and a half per head per year.

"It does not surprise me that they changes some requirements again ..." The not-so-new award requirements were published in the 2003 printing of the Leadership Training Committee Guide.

"... that are all difficult to remember months after they happen." Which is why I suggest to the boys that they bring their book to troop meetings and on campouts.