FScouter

Bears repeating: "It would be a disservice to over five million youth and adult members of Scouting to allow members to pick and choose among the elements of the Oath or Law."

When in doubt ... Think about our mission, and the aims that support fulfilling that mission. Then do the right thing.

The "Goth" thing is something some young people may want to explore. There are 10,000 things in this world to explore. Look at it, explore it, enjoy it, then move on and explore something else. But don't stop at Goth, or anything else. Life learning is continuous.

It doesn't seem to me like you're burned out. You just have a lot of other interests in addition to Scouting. Hey, maybe you could combine your music interest with Scouting. Volunteer to provide music for a court of honor. Maybe you know someone that plays trumpet or bugle that could play "taps" at a flag retirement. Or "To the Colors" at a flag raising. Earn the Music merit badge. Play the guitar, or harmonica, or violin, or whatever your instrument at a campfire. You could be in charge of the campfire program. You have a musical "ear". Lead some campfire songs. Maybe that's not your preferred musical style, but a person with a musical talent can be proficient in a variety of styles. Your post exudes enthusiasm. I say GO for it!

Mental note to myself - Maintain close ties to our chartered organization.

Approval for leader training awards is the responsibility of the council training committee (volunteers). Usually the committee delegates this to the individual district training chairmen (the members of the council committee) to do this. If the award application has been properly filled out, approval should not take more than 5 minutes. Followup with your district training chairman.

"once again BSA could straighten this out with a few quick lines but..no....frustration abounds.. " When a boy tells you he already did that requirement and wants you to sign his book, what are you going to tell him? You can think a little bit about our aim of character development and have a little conversation with him. You can help him to choose for himself whether what he did last year should "count". Is that so hard? I think our national organization purposely words requirements in this manner. Not to frustrate leaders, but to challenge us to BE leaders, to give us yet another opportunity to teach character to boys and fulfill the mission of Scouting.

That was an unkind and un-Scoutlike slam against Eamonn. What would Baden-Powell have to say about that? Rather than linking us to your personal website with every post, how about supporting your comments about Scouting with a links to BSA resources instead??

It would be grand if Scouting could be run like a computer program. Process boys like records in a file using if-then/else statements, subroutines, loops, and calculations. What would the flow chart for Scouting look like? Incredibly complex. People are more complicated than a computer program. Standards are vague because it is impossible to completely nail some things down. Like active. Part of being an adult leader is using our brains to meet the standards that seem vague. Surely we can all agree that boys should be involved somehow in the Scouting program, and that being involved in Scouting means achieving the aims of Scouting and fulfilling the mission of Scouting. Some ways to be involved: Attend meetings Attend activities Attend campouts Participate in service projects Help another Scout learn a skill Perform the duties of a leadership position Do good turns Live the Scout Oath and Law every day Tell another boy about Scouting Invent a new dutch oven recipe Help build a chuck box Make phone calls to other Scouts reminding them of the next outing. Keep physically fit Complete requirements for rank advancement Attend church Participate in community activities All of these things contribute to being a Scout. Any action no matter how minor, that contributes to achieving the three aims of Scouting, character development, citizenship training, and personal fitness, must be considered an action that constitutes being active. Take a few minutes and you can probably think of 100 more examples of ways a boy can be active. Attending meetings and outings is certainly part of being active, but lets not discount 100 other ways to be active. That is why standards are sometimes seen as being vague.

So, how 'bout them Dodgers?!

Put a comma or semi-colon after "sky" and it would be clear that the exception applies only to the tent. As it is without punctuation to set off "tent" it is grammatically correct that the parenthetical exception applies to both sky and to tent. As Hunt says, it's really a moot point inasmuch as few if any Scout camps provide cabins for campers. Of course if tenting in one's living room is considered a long-term camp, that's another matter.

The COR is appointed by the IH/CO. If their appointee is being a pill, they should know about it. Maybe they'll decide to replace him.

The requirement states very clearly "You may use a week of long-term camp toward this requirement." The "sleep" arrangement specifies "under the sky or in a tent you have pitched" and clarifies that by excluding long-term camp which is clearly allowed in the sentence immediately preceding. It is crystal clear that the sleeping arrangements do NOT apply to long-term camp. If long-term camp was not acceptable for the Camping merit badge, the requirement would simply say long term camp not acceptable. Instead, it specifically says a week of long-term camp IS allowed and that it is EXCEPTED from the sky or tent rule. So, theres your proof.

"Cabin camping doesn't count." Ed, you are wrong. The requirement for 20 nights specifically excludes long-term camp from the "under the sky or in a tent" requirement. The word "cabin" does not even appear in the requirements.

There have been a number of comments around the forums recently discussing the attendance as a measure of Scout Spirit . Certainly being an active member of ones patrol and troop gives opportunities to demonstrate spirit. But beyond that one hour a week there are far more opportunities. Does anyone suppose there is a preference to using attendance as a measure of Scout Spirit because that is the only time the Scoutmaster has an opportunity to observe spirit? How important are the observations of the SM towards determining whether a boy has demonstrated Scout spirit in his daily life? The boy is given several definitions of Scout spirit in his Boy Scout Handbook. Though some may call me a book-thumper, there really is a tidbit or two of value in the Handbook. Some of what Scouts are taught about Scout spirit are found in the rank requirements sections of the Handbook: In the Tenderfoot section of the Handbook: Scout spirit refers to the effort you make to live up to the ideals of Scouting. The Oath, Law, motto, and slogan serve as everyday guidelines for a good life. In the Second Class section: Most requirements for Scout ranks can be measured by other people. How well you live the Scout Oath and Scout Law in your life is something for you to judge. You alone know how you act when no one is around to witness what you do. Do the best you can to live each day by the Scout Oath and Law. In the First Class section: At troop and patrol gatherings you've recited the Scout Oath and the Scout Law dozens of times. The words come easily to you, but do you know what those words mean? The Scout Oath and Scout Law are not just to be obeyed while you are wearing a uniform. The spirit of Scouting that they represent is every bit as important when you are at home, at school, and in your community. In the Star, Life, and Eagle section: Your standing as a Scout does not depend so much on the skills of your hands or the badges on your merit badge sash, as on the spirit in your heart - on what you are willing to do for others, on whether you are doing your very best to live the Scout Oath and Law. Living by these high standards is always a personal choice and something only you can fully measure. But by now, many other people should be seeing qualities in you that make it clear you are choosing wisely. After reading what the boys handbook has to say, attendance requirements seem to have very little to do with Scout spirit.

The intent is that boys will not be penalized simply because the summer camp they attend has wall tents already pitched. Though they didn't pitch it, they camped and slept in it. I don't know of any summer camps where Scouts sleep in cabins, but if that's the case they should not be penalized because of the camp sleeping facilities.

I think the committee would be hard pressed to explain the logic of why boys should pay for 12 months of Scouting, when the program for the den ends after 3 months.

Eamonn's story sounds great. I think I'll use at our next training. Better than the old "for insurance purposes" ruse.

Mommy and kids pile into the car, kids don't put on their seat belts, as usual. "The car won't start unless you all put on your seat belts!" (jiggle keys in the ignition for effect). How wimpy!

The new requirement does not take effect until Jan 1, 2006 and applies only to boys that have not already started working on first class requirements by that date. After July 1, 2006 all boys that have not completed first class rank will need to complete the new requirement.

"I was the only adult in the car so I did not want to violate G2SS regs." Some of you will groan to hear it, but in the interest of clarifying another myth, there is no restriction against having only one adult in a car. The rule that is sometimes confused is no one-on-one contact. One adult and more than one boy is not one-on-one.

It is really sad when a "trainer" perpetuates an urban legend such as this. It makes one wonder what other myths and misinformation were presented at your training. A good general rule is that if a statement cannot be supported in a BSA publication, it's just an opinion, at best.

BSA grants charters to organizations that agree to use the BSA program in accordance with the policies of BSA, as well as those of the organization. If a CO wants to set an a minimum attendance policy for a boy to remain a member, that does not conflict with BSA policy. However, there is no support for a policy that would add an attendance requirement on top of BSA rank requirements. No one, either adult leaders or the CO, may add, modify, or delete BSA rank requirements. If boys choose activities other than Scouts, it is because "other activities" have more value to them. An attendance "law" passed by adults does not make Scout activities more attractive.

Well, He certainly would not argue about the differences between atheist and agnostic. And I doubt the WCTC would warmly welcome with open arms a boy carrying a can of beer, with strong convictions about alcohol into their organization.

What is important is whether the Scout understands what "belief in God" means and how his belief or lack thereof affects his membership. Whether or not he understands the distinction between the words "oeijak" and "kajieo" is irrelavant.