FScouter

"It might be very different if worn by some scouting reform organization." Like the Kuduscouts?

I'd characterize the den leader as more frustrated than argumentative. She's frustrated because the pack failed to adequately fundraise to pay the pack expenses. She's frustrated because she has personally funded the operation of the den, and apparently the pack is OK with that. She's frustrated because the pack does not have a plan to pay for den expenses. The woman may be gone in 2 months, but the root of her frustrations remains.

Organize a pack spaghetti dinner. The den should be collecting dues and turning them over to the pack. The pack should pay or reimburse for den expenses. It's not fair to expect den leaders to personally finance the program.

Share with us your "vision of success" and how you explained to the SPL how to write his vision of success. How did you get the two visions aligned? Had you ever heard of "EDGE" before, and how did you learn enough about it to teach it?

"Once you purchase a badge, you own the physical badge." "So in short, there's nothing wrong with you sewing patches on your jeans. You own the patches." No, you are wrong. Insignia is the property of BSA. You purchase only the right to use the badge in the manner permitted by BSA. See the Insignia Guide.

Safe Swim Defense and Safety Afloat trainings are not intended to teach boating techniques, aquatics skills, or rescue techniques. The purpose of these trainings is NOT to teach you how to sail a boat, right a flipped canoe, negotiate whitewater rapids, or rescue a drowning boy. The purpose is to teach you what preparation must be completed first, BEFORE anyone hits the water, how to MONITOR the event as it is taking place, to know your limitations, and to know whether the event should be scrapped before it even starts. Much of what you need to know is common sense. Make sure equipment is in good condition for example. If you dont know, find someone that does. The trainings cover the 8 points of the Safe Swim Defense, and the 9 points of Safety Afloat. If the outing leader is not comfortable with the way the event is planned, the responsibility is to cancel the event or restructure it so all points are properly covered.

"We adults can talk all we want about the abstract social status of uniforming theory, but it doesn't seem to matter to our kids." Is it important that it matters to kids? I'll bet they don't care anything about character development or the mission of Scouting either.

Well, I wouldnt want to be accused of being one of those 3 frogs. So Ill back off (a very tiny bit) and agree that a boy is not required to have a uniform in order to be a Boy Scout. I do not equate that to the contention that the uniform is optional. Why do you suppose BSA wrote that ONE sentence into the literature? Was it intended to give units the option to dismiss the uniform method? Not likely. Rather, it gives a boy a way to be a Scout even if he does not have a uniform. It lets us bring boys into the troop without restricting membership only to those that own a uniform. Yes son, you may join the troop even if you dont have a uniform. We WANT you to be a member! My dad was a Boy Scout during the 30s depression. His father was the minister of the church in a poor community. He supported his family on a salary of $5 a week. My dad did not have a uniform. No one had a uniform. Still, he was proud to be a Boy Scout. If a uniform was REQUIRED, he could not have been a Scout. There are dozens of reasons to wear the uniform and promote the uniform method. The Scout Handbook discusses the uniform and never says optional. The Scoutmaster Handbook has an entire chapter devoted to the uniform, and only one sentence saying we cannot REQUIRE one to be a member. The uniform and the uniform method is discussed over and over throughout the BSA publications. The uniform represents a democratic idea of equality; bringing people of different economic, religious, and ethnic backgrounds together. It identifies us as members of a national organization, sharing common ideals. It shows our activity, responsibility, and achievement. It is a reminder to all of us of our commitment to the ideals and purpose of the Boy Scouts of America. It makes our commitment visible to the community. What in Heavens name are people thinking about when they argue AGAINST the uniform !?

The merit badge sash is usually worn for formal occasions, but it is not restricted to those occasions. A boy may wear his sash with the uniform any time he wants to do so. The MB sash is worn over the shoulder epaulet. The OA sash is narrower and is worn under the epaulet. See the OA section of the Insignia Guide. Neither sash is ever worn on the belt. See the excess insignia section.

Kudu - you are wrong. There is no support at all in any BSA publication for making up your own uniform. Since you don't like the uniform, wear your dickie or whatever. But don't try to tell the rest of us that what you wear or what your personal web site says, has anything at all to do with the Boy Scout uniform!

Boy Scouts is a uniformed organization. The uniform is not optional. Refusing to wear it, looking for excuses to not wear it, and complaining about it calls into question one's fitness to be a member.

The Blue & Gold dinner, Arrow of Light ceremony, Webelos to Scout crossover ceremony, and a regular pack meeting are completely separate events. Why do some packs combine events? They don't have the ambition and resources to properly plan and execute individual events. The result is one event which contains a few elements of each but which never really achieves the purpose which is intended for each separate event. Consider combining a Halloween party, Superbowl party, and a boy's birthday party into one event. Wear a Frankenstein mask, eat chips and dip, watch football, play pin-the-tail-on the donkey, and serve cake. How cool is that? Better might be to pick one event, do it right, and skip the others.

"Overpopulation kills more animals than hunters." Animals do not naturally overpopulate themselves, leading to freezing and starvation. The almighty all-knowing human species fiddles with mother nature to make "improvements." The unintended results lead to more fiddling. If humans would quit meddling so much, there would be fewer problems to fix. Mother Nature has been doing quite well for 38 billion years and doesn't need any help from well-intentioned but mis-guided humans.

"We're only hearing one side of the story." We never hear both sides of the story. If we all had to wait to hear both sides, (or all sides)this would be a pretty dead forum. If the only side presented shows the SM to be a jerk, there is nothing wrong with commenting to that effect.

"... there were increasing complaints about mountain lions extending their range into suburban communities ..." I know that in this part of the country, mountain lions do not extend their range. Rather, human extend their range. In places where lions are "managed", I have to wonder whether the deer also need to be "managed".

Hmmm... Are there any troop committees out there that require boys to attend Outdoor Leader Skills training before going camping? Anybody require Cubs to attend BALOO? Anybody attend Outdoor Leader Skills, and use that training to teach boys? Of course. Winter Awareness training is no different. The boy training and preparation takes place at the troop meetings leading up to their event, presented by the trained adult leaders.

Good answer Ed Troop 1. Do you have any ideas on the real question, which is what to tell adults to persuade them to take training??

The "constitution" (aka bylaws, rule book)may be found within the pages of the Scoutmaster Handbook, Patrol Leader Handbook, Troop Committee Guidebook, etc. There is no point in rewriting these publications.

Adults that want to work with this youth program need to be trained because TRAINED leaders understand WHAT needs to be done, WHY it needs to be done, and HOW to do it. Our boys don't need adults stumbling in the dark.

Adults trying to perform multiple roles in a unit, whether they are registered or not, is a recipe for failure. One person can do ONE job well, or two jobs half-way, or less. There are those that attempt this and will claim it can be done, but look closely and you will find that parts of both jobs are being skipped over.

"How long do you think a first year Scout should be with a Troop before summer camp." If the boy wants to go, the parents are OK with it, and the Scoutmaster will keep an extra eye out, then one full day with the troop should be just fine.

Often it is suggested that units write up some kind of uniform rule that involves removing uniform parts. "Waist up" seems to be a common idea. If wearing the uniform is a problem, why not simply stop wearing it? No rule is needed. What is the purpose in writing up a "rule" that says the unit uniform is less than a uniform? There are a million+1 things a PLC can make decisions on. Changing the uniform is not one of them. The uniform and uniform options are defined by our national organization, not by individual units. It is wrong to empower the PLC to alter something they are not allowed to alter, particularly because they, or the adult leaders dont like it. Doing so anyway is contradictory to building character.

Maybe it's their tough luck, but our boys don't know anything about "earning" their way by creating a paperwork rat's nest to get free money. But man, I can't wait for that tri-tip dinner their are putting on next Saturday night! Maybe it's just me, but the tri-tip dinner method seems a lot more satisfying. Maybe that's why BSA doesn't discuss the "free money" methods in the literature. Maybe those methods just don't do the intended job.

BSA is the most flexible and adaptive national program around. BSA compares to Soviet communism? Perhaps for some, complete anarchy would still be too restrictive?

Reading these posts, an outsider might think that Scouting is all about Scoutcraft skills and leadership! Building leaders is not the goal of Scouting. Neither is building boys that are knot wizards. Does anybody know why leadership development is a part of Scouting, and how big a part it should play?? Scoutingagain has the right idea, but he didn't finish the post. Scout skills is not an end in itself, and neither is leadership. What is the "end" we are really aiming for?