FScouter

Its not necessary for a Boy Scout to wear a Boy Scout uniform ALL the time. It should be worn when it is appropriate to wear it. As the Handbook says, wear it for troop meetings, courts of honor, and indoor activities, and special outdoor occasions like flag ceremonies and special times at summer camp. My son has served on the Philmont OA Trail Crew for 3 years. What kind of uniform do you suppose those boys wear while cutting logs, moving 400 pound boulders into place, and cutting grade with a pick and mcleod? They dont complain that uniform shirt is poor quality or the pants are binding in the crotch, or the neckerchief gets in the way. They wear Carhartt bib overalls, leather gloves, heavy boots with 2 pairs of wool socks, and a hardhat. Those of us that care about the uniform (derogatorily referred to as card-carrying members of the uniform police) advocate wearing appropriate clothing for the occasion at hand. We dont encourage outfitter clothes as a substitute for the uniform. Wear the outfitter clothes for trail building, rock climbing, backpacking, maintaining property, and garbage can cleaning. Save your good uniform for uniform specific occasions.

The terms class a", b", c, etc. are defined solely by the person using the term. Thus your class a including sash and medals may be different than somebodys elses a which may be nothing more than a uniform shirt, green walmart pants, and sweatsocks. The a, b, c terms apparently were used in the military, and had clear definitions there. BSA does not use those terms, thus there is no universal definition, which makes the terms basically meaningless. The Boy Scout Handbook defines the uniform, and the Uniform Inspection Sheet has some additional details.

Well, since you asked Custom unit-designed patches are not permitted to be worn on the BSA uniform. The Insignia Guide is quite explicit that only local councils and the national council are authorized to design and release uniform patches. Councils may do so for events like camporees or summer camp, but the design must meet set criteria and be approved by the national council first. A Boy Scout patrol may make a custom patrol badge using the blank patrol patch available at the Scout shop.

... National basically says that a scout that hasn't developed an appropriate level of skills or experience in his POR, gets credit for it ... No, the national council does NOT say the Scout gets credit for doing nothing. They said that UNIT LEADERS must ensure the boy fulfills the obligations of the position. Quoting: However, unit leaders must ensure that he is fulfilling the obligations of his assigned leadership position. If he is not, then they should remove the Scout from that position." Lets not place all the blame for failure solely on the boy after the unit leaders (including SPL) have failed to do their part too. Sitting by and watching a boy do nothing for 6 months is not an option.

The oldest Insignia Guide I have is from 1997 and the wording is still the same as the current Guide. It is found in the "Excess Insignia" section that talks about keeping the uniform neat and uncluttered, and suggests several ways of displaying temporary patches. "Members may wear only temporary patches (no badges of rank) on the back of the merit badge sash. Members may wear only one merit badge sash at a time. A merit badge sash is never worn on the belt." Also "The OA sash in not worn with the merit badge sash." By the way ... troops are not authorized to create any kind of uniform patch. Special patches must be approved by the local council, and the national council.

"I will take a look at what it says in the Insignia Guide (which doesn't always have the right answer)" Do you mean the Insignia Guide has wrong information, or that it doesn't have the answer to all your questions, or ?

I dont think OGE is responding to any specific case or question posed in this thread, rather he is countering the idea put forth that skipping elections is an OK thing to do. In the Boy Scouts of America program, the primary function of the Scoutmaster is to train boy leaders. The objective is not to have a smoothly operating boy-led troop by depriving certain boys of a chance to be elected by their peers and to learn and practice leadership. If the troop or patrol elects a bad leader, the challenge for the SM is to work with and train that bad leader to do a good job. Bypassing the election and appointing the best boy just makes it a lot easier for the SM to not do his job. Individual troops may do this, or may do that, but the BSA program is that the senior patrol leader and patrol leaders are elected by the boys; not appointed by an adult.

The Insignia Guide also says boys may wear temporary patches on the back of the merit badge sash, in addition to the right pocket.

Since the adult committee planned the troop meeting with no input from the SPL and no discussion with him, why would it be important for him to be at the meeting?

You might take a look at the Troop Committee Guidebook; it has dandy job descriptions for all the adult committee positions, (including the committee chairman). Then, the Troop Committee Challenge training can help the committee learn how to play the game. By the way, what are a few of the overburdonsome regs and rules from BSA, enough to choke an elephant? Maybe we forum members can help you digest some of them? Welcome to the forums.

A telephone pole can rot too, especially if it has been cut off at the bottom.

"A scout uniform is no longer considered a military style uniform since the 1970's and therefore scouts should render the appropriate salute as if they are wearing civilian clothing." That sounds like you're saying Boy Scouts in uniform should NOT salute the flag, but place hand over heart instead? Where can one read more about that idea?

"The whole system of Checks and Balances was built based on each group respecting each other. If that respect is gone, then we are sunk as a society." We're doomed.

The opening post indicated the boy with the knife stepped out of line (away from others?) before cutting on his stick. That would seem to be the prudent thing to do. Perhaps the adult leader told him to move away from others? Perhaps he didnt step far enough away to allay any concerns? Perhaps he was swinging it around in a dangerous manner? Nothing J-dawg168 posted is wrong; I was just looking for clarification. Regardless, the reaction was excessive.

What's wrong with stepping away from others to use a knife?

"Anybody have any words of wisdom for me?????" Yes, ditch the bylaws. All the rules you need are already written in your guidebooks: Scoutmaster Handbook, Troop Committee Guidebook, Advancement Polices book, etc. There's no sense in copying them. Any other rules written in bylaws are likely to be contradictory to BSA rules, like the 80% rule for example. A better idea is a troop parent guide booklet. It could include things like when the troop and committee meetings are scheduled, what equipment the boy will need, how the PLC operates, points of contact, the methods of BSA and the troop's philosophy in implementing them, maybe a little bit about how advancement works.

A troop can no more "vote" to remove part of the uniform then they can vote to remove certain rank requirements.

The Troop Committee Guidbook has a similar process, tailored for selecting Scoutmasters and assistant Scoutmasters. The bottom line is you're far better off taking the time to identify several candidates, and then SELECTING the BEST person.

"Like I'm sure most troops do, we watch the Scouts and if we notice one isolating himself, we work with the other Scouts to get him interacting again." Could that not be done with electronic isolating devices too?

Welcome to the forums Mrclark. A real Venturing crew may design it's own uniform, but Boy Scout uniform components may not be part of a Venturing uniform, which is the case to which OGE is referring. A camp staff is no more a Venturing crew than the virtual patrols some troops assemble for a camporee. Personally, I don't think camp staffs should be wearing the Venturing uniform at all. I find it odd too, that every time there is discussion about the uniform, there is at least one person who takes offense if there is any mention about the correct way to wear it.

How about "CONGRATULATIONS ! Well done! You are now an Eagle Scout! What happens next is we send your application to the council office for their signature, then it is forwarded to Texas to verify that all is in order. If there are no glitchs, your Eagle certificate should arrive in about a month. So, barring any unknown problems, as of this moment you are an EAGLE SCOUT." Handshakes and backslaps all around. Tears from mom, maybe the SM too. OR, "Well, you completed your board of review OK. You're almost an Eagle Scout but not quite. First we must get the council office to sign off on your application. Usually that's not a problem but you never know. Then they will send your application to Texas for their review. They will check to see that everything has been properly completed and all the signatures are OK. If there is a problem, they'll reject it and send it back. If they don't find any problems, you'll get your certificate in about a month, but it might take 2 or 3 months, you never know. It looks like you'll be an Eagle, but not until you get the official certificate. So don't start celebrating yet."

You asked for source policy: Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures book #33088 Troop Committee Guidebook #34505 Board of Review training: http://www.scouting.org/boyscouts/supplemental/18-625/index.html

The girl in the air-conditioned council office must have had a cowpie for lunch before she rubber-stamped "APPROVED" on the tour permit.

"I didn't take it as an insult, ..." It's easy for a third party to interpret a comment as not an insult when it's directed at another person. "Weapon", "firearm", "gun"? What's the diff? The purpose of that mechanical device is to kill, either animals or other people.

"Nanny is brought in to watch the baby so mom can sleep. They're disfunctional." No need to answer, but why would a woman have a baby and not want to take care of it?