FScouter

What you have planned sounds more like a Scout-a-rama or Scouting event, and less like a Boy Scout camporee. Instead of having "separate" everything on the same day at the same location, why not just do the festival event as planned, and do a camporee on another date? What, really, is the point in combining different kinds of events under one umbrella? It all sounds overly confusing.

In our district Ive participated in similar discussions about adding Webelos to the Boy Scout camporee event. Some have advocated opening up the event to bear dens too; theyre practically Webelos and its not fair to deny them their right to have fun, and Webelos need to bond with a troop. Weak arguments in my opinion; there are far better ways to accomplish those ends. The sole motivation for including Webelos in a Boy Scout camporee is simply that the district activities committee does not want to make the effort to plan and run a Webelos Web-O-ree event. They seek to avoid the necessity of running a separate event on its own date, with its own program. Troops and Webelos go along with this because they see a good excuse to skip planning a joint den-troop campout. For this convenience factor, Webelos are deprived of having their own event, tailored for them. Boy Scouts are distracted from focusing on their patrols to accommodate the little kids. Its not a good thing.

The reason there is confusion is that in the BSA program, there is no provision for Cub Scouts to camp overnight at a Boy Scout camporee. There is no BSA guidance on how to integrate Webelos camping into a Boy Scout camporee, thus you will get lots of personal opinions on the "right" way to do it. Webelos are day visitors at camporee. Refer to the Camporee Guide.

"This is not something new, they have done it in the past. It is almost a tradition with them, to leave camp on Friday ..." Knowing that cutting out early is a tradition, try speaking with the boys and the parents before camp to explain the new expcectations.

The first paragraph on page 169 of the Boy Scout Handbook has a fairly concise definition of active. If one is looking for the rule of law; a hard and fast definition of active, it is not to be found. However, if one reads the publications listed, it becomes clear what active means and how it applies to advancement. A troop that writes up a hard definition is missing the point. It is the understanding of what active means that is key to how it applies to advancement. Understanding comes from reading the publications and working with the program. A Scouting program cant be run from a book of rules. It requires knowledge and wisdom. One gets the knowledge from the publications and the wisdom from applying the knowledge to the program.

Are there a National set of Bylaws that can be referenced? Tons of references: The Boy Scout Handbook Scoutmaster Handbook Advancement Guide Patrol Leader Handbook SPL Handbook Troop Leadership Training Troop Committee Guidebook http://www.scouting.org/boyscouts/resources/mbc/rank.html http://www.scouting.org/boyscouts/videos/advancement/index.html among others.

"It seem like the whole thing can become a jumbled mess." That's one of many reasons why BSA does not recommend merit badge instruction as part of a troop meeting.

The wording will never be precise or clear enough for he that does not want to do the requirement.

"-- and Indians loved war - to their very end sadly." Hmmm... how to put this. Indians loved war to their death? Maybe you meant Indians loved defending themselves to their death? Invaders came into their land and initiated a 300 year extermination program. What's to love about that?

"... in Scouting a 12 year old Second Class can be elected SPL, then we expect him to "lead" the troop...including the 17 year old Life Scouts. As Rachael Ray would say, "how dumb is THAT?" " No, we expect the Scoutmaster to train him in leadership. Scouting is a good and safe place for a boy to learn leadership skills, making lots of mistakes and poor judgements along the way.

Confessed what?

Do a search for the keyword "active", in the Advancement Resources forum.

My experience has been that after recruiting help for a project, Scouting or anything else, its a good idea follow up frequently with those you've recruited. The night before, "Hi, just thought I call and touch base. See you tomorrow morning."

Who has the say in allocating the funds? The purpose of the troop budget is to finance the operation of the troop. The expense side of the budget is determined by the program plan put together at the annual planning conference, then presented to and approved by the troop committee. The purpose of dues and money earning projects is to generate the income side of the budget. The treasurer writes the checks, and ensures that expenditures have already been approved by virtue of being included in the budget. Too often the temptation is to hold a fundraising event, then figure out what to spend the money on. That approach can lead to heated discussions about the worthiness of ideas, and who has spending authority. Successful fundraising can also lead to a huge war chest with no clear purpose. Boys dont join Scouts to do fundraising and build up a bank account. A money-earning project should have a clear purpose, such as to finance a Philmont trip, or to replace the troop tents, or buy troop t-shirts. Boys get a better understanding of money when they see the direct results of their fundraising efforts.

BSA recommends: The treasurer, Scoutmaster and troop scribe prepare a draft budget. The PLC reviews and finalizes it. The committee approves the finished budget. The annual planning conference needs to be done first because the purpose of the budget is to support the program plan. Refer to: Scoutmaster Handbook, chapter 17 Troop Committee Guidebook, chapter 6 Unit Budget Plan 28-426 available at the council office or at http://www.samhoustonbsa.org/Home/Forms/Rechartering-UnitBudge/ A Cub Scout version is at http://www.scouting.org/cubscouts/resources/packbudget/index.html None of this is theory; it is proven practices that work.

If the district day camp director selects a gay Scout leader, that is a decision of the district, not the troop that initally approved his application for a troop position. If the district advancement committee selects and approves a gay merit badge counselor, it is the district that did so, not the troop. All adults that serve at the district or council level are selected by the district or council. If a gay adult is not desired for a district or council position, they can select someone else. An adult leader in a unit that also serves on the district or council committee must be dual registered. A district that does not want a gay Scout leader from a troop is not obligated to approve his application. All this presupposes that BSA would make a provision for avowed homosexuals to be members, and that hasn't happened.

Cub Scouts is not a coed program, so little girls will have to join something else. Maybe little league. Scout uniforms are restricted to members.

"Gonz, don't get me wrong mate, but this is not your job!!!. Yeh got no business interferin' with troop committee operations, tellin' the treasurer how he/she should work, insistin' on different accounting oversight." I disagree with that none-of-your-business philosophy. It may be the function of another adult, but if they are screwing it up, it is the responsibility of any and every other member of the unit to speak up in an effort to get things fixed. Thank you for your kind service and all that but you gotta do the job right. $13,000 and separate banks outside the overview of the treasurer is more than "nobody's perfect". That's just screwy. Keeping quiet and looking the other way is irresponsible and invites more of the same.

Yeh gotta understand that the project signature is meant to be signed by the registered leader who is "closest" to da project, eh? I understand that the application and the workbook ask for the signature of the Scoutmaster, no one else. If the SM wants to delegate an assistant to work with an Eagle candidate, he certainly may do so. But when it comes time to sign the paperwork it is the Scoutmaster that is certifying that the work has been completed as described. In the instance being described in this thread, the SM was not approving the work, and others were contemplating an end-run around the SM. There is an appeal process through the troop committee to advance a boys application over the objection of the SM, but simply having another person sign the paperwork is subverting the process and is not appropriate. Either get the signature of the SM, or run through an appeal.

"There is an accepted format for that training which can be completed in 1 day! " Introduction to Outdoor Leader Skills is designed to take place over 3 days, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, and includes 2 overnights. An alternative format is 2 Saturdays. Either schedule includes 23 1/2 hours of program time. The training cannot be completed in 1 day and if it is being presented in 1 day, the participants are missing out on at least 2/3 of the content.

BSA provides guidance in the Scoutmaster Handbook (among other publications) about when to wear and not wear the uniform: "Do not wear the uniform in situations that might mistakenly imply an endorsement by the BSA of a product, service, political candidate, or philosophy." "Do not wear the uniform while engaged in any activity that could dishonor or discredit the Boy Scouts of America, the uniform, or the person wearing it.

Regarding the quote attributed to Petronius, it has been fairly thoroughly debunked. It apparently originated in Robert Townsend's book Up the Organization (1970) in support of his thesis. See http://www.dtc.umn.edu/~reedsj/petronius.html

That may be, but if the Scoutmaster refuses to sign his approval in the workbook that the project is completed, or refuses to sign the application, there is no provision for some other person to sign instead. If that is the case, the application and workbook should be submitted to the district minus the signature. If it chooses to do so, the district may proceed with the board of review anyway. They should at least first inquire as to why the SM is withholding his approval.

Despite an upleasant parting of the ways, I'd first go to the former advancement person, explain the situation, and ask if he would please help by looking through his stuff for any old advancement forms or records that he may have.

The purpose of Trek Safely, Climb On Safely, Safety Afloat, and Safe Swim Defense trainings is to inform adult leaders what skills, supervision, equipment, and planning they must have in place before they take boys out trekking, climbing, floating, and swimming. These awareness trainings do not teach those skills and are not intended to teach those skills. They do teach what resources are necessary and how to get them.