FScouter

It may be true that the data are not useful, or they may be very useful. Who's to say if it is not available? Certainly, crafting an effective YP policy is not aided by withholding data on incidents the policy is intended to prevent.

An anecdote about an SE that made a knee-jerk hair-trigger decision does not a BSA policy make. I dont think we serve our adult leaders by going hysterical about what might happen. That just gets folks all paranoid about touching a kid or looking at a kid or reprimanding a kid or even being near a kid without 12 other adults of good character looking on as eye-witnesses.

"Maybe we should withhold payment from BSA or just carry on like we have been and let BSA sue us. :-) " For the life of me I will never understand why some people involved in Scouting seem to hate Scouting so much.

He wants to prep the board members about what they should ask him?? Throw him a curve and ask some tough questions about something he doesn't want to talk about.

And really, when it comes down to it, if BSA isn't going to print anything that is definitive and leaves it open to interpretation, then I guess they can't really fault someone for doing it "wrong" if they never defined "wrong" in the first place. Welcome to the forums by the way This is all really very simple. BSA administers a Religious Emblems program. Boys are encouraged to learn about their faith. An award is available if the boy meets the requirements. The requirements are defined by the particular faith, and approved by BSA. The pin-on medal is designed by the religious institution, and approved by BSA to be worn on the BSA uniform. A cloth knot representing the medal may be worn instead of the medal. The knot is not a generic religious award; it represents only the award offered by the religious institution and approved by BSA. There are 35 or 40 faiths that have developed a program. If your faith is not one of them, there is no award for you. The BSA Relationships division can tell you what needs to be done to set up a program and get it recognized. It sounds like youve taken the first steps to make that happen. But until that is completed, there is no award. Sorry. For more information about the programs see the official BSA web site: http://www.scouting.org/awards/religious/index.html For more information about how to wear the knot or medal it represents refer to the BSA Insignia Guide: http://www.scouting.org/pubs/33066/

Now the story is changing. If an adult leader was arrested and charged by the district attorney with a sex crime against a boy, there's no question his membership would be revoked. But that's not the story that was related. BSA isn't going to immediately revoke the membership of a Scoutmaster because he deferred a board of review and a Scout responded by making up a story. Again, a report of a YP incident does not result in immediate revocation of membership. AFTER the boy makes a complaint, AFTER SE investigates, AFTER the police are called in, AFTER the perp is arrested, AFTER the DA files formal charges, then the SE may revoke. Let's not jump the gun.

In the olden days, newspapers (and other media) were a source of news - relating factual events that had occurred. Nowadays media for the most part is sensationalistic entertainment - with a little bit of news mixed in. It's hard to know where the facts end and the editorializing begins. If the objective is to disparage a person or group, there is all kinds of sensational journalism availble to fool the masses.

Membership revocations are seriously considered and circumstances carefully investigated. The first reaction to a reported YP incident is NOT to revoke membership. BSA never ever revoked a person's membership because he walked in an unlocked bathroom door. BSA never ever revoked a membership because some kid made up a false story. To claim otherwise is alarmist sensationalism. Why to people say this stuff?

"How does one explain to the young scout that scout knives, either BSA folding or sheath are prohibited at scout activities? The same holds true for the BSA official hand axe." An out of control assistant adult leader declares that the Scout knife is "prohibited". There is no written evidence presented to support such a comment. No updates to the Handbook or the G2SS that anybody's seen or heard of. 15 other people speak up and agree it's a bunch of hooey. Maybe the guy was talking about Scouting activities on airplanes? It seems pretty clear that knives are still part of Scouting, axes too. Of course I could be wrong.

The passage of time hurts the accuser's case more than the accused. In a trial, the burden is completely on the accuser to prove his case. The accused doesn't have to do anything except sit and listen. If he did nothing, there will be no evidence. If he did commit predatory sex abuse on a child, tough luck if he has a hard time fabricating a "defense". The passage of time doesn't lessen the evil committed. I'm afraid you won't get much support if you're trying to get victims of childhood rape to just forget about it and let bygones be bygones.

Some people have found the Cub Scout Leader book to be helpful.

That hardly seems ethical. Kinda like advising a boy that its OK to do the wrong thing as long as you don't get caught.

Hey Ed, you've mentioned this before. What do you mean when you say the national council can "CYA". What does that mean? Is there some hidden agenda behind the new requirements?

"So yesterday and today I did some research and I can find no such official rule about this." Why were you doing the research instead of the one claiming a new rule? Until proven different, our troop goes by the printed Handbook, G2SS, etc. etc. The burden is on he who wants it different.

Fine but it shouldn't be tied to advancement which is supposed to be skill related. The problem is these requirements have nothing to do with rank. Leave ranks to be what they were intended to be, a measure of the scout's journey. There are other requirments, like SC #8, that have nothing to do with the troop or scouting I thought T-2-1 was scout craft specific. S-L-E was leadership. While all this is important, I don't see how it relates advancement? Every rank requirement has its face-value purpose. Learn to tie two half-hitches because it will come in handy if you have to tie a load on top of the car. Learn to cook because TV dinners get disgusting after 10 days in a row. Learn to splint a broken arm because your buddy might dump it someday. This is what we tell the boys. They dont understand there may be another purpose as well. In fact we adults tie so many knots and tell boys why we must learn to tie them, that even we forget theres more behind it than tying a clothesline to hang our wet socks. Sometimes we get too focused on the mechanics of advancement and forget what our mission is. The underlying purpose of all rank requirements and the purpose of advancement is to develop in boys character, citizenship, and fitness. Rank requirements and advancement is one of the means to achieve those aims. Buddy system, bullies, internet thugs, personal safety; they have everything to do with developing physical fitness, mental fitness, and emotional fitness. Im glad to see BSA recognize there is more for a kid to learn than how to pitch a tent and identify poison oak.

"What's next, sexual abstinence? " Hey, that's a great idea. It fits in perfectly with our mission to help boys make ethical choices over their lifetimes.

The "gods" in Texas already have a pipeline direct to you "peons". It's called the Leadership Training Committee Guidebook. In it you will find answers to all your "knot" questions, all laid out in crystal clear language. No sense bothering the DE or SE about something they havn't any reason to know about.

Yes it is still wrong. Of course, anything one does that could be considered wrong is automatically "not wrong" as long as one can think up a good excuse. "But officer, I had to run that red light because I was running a little late this morning". "OK, no problem, you're free to go. Have a nice day".

It would help if we stopped putting ourselves into positions where others see no alternative but to take our lives. Situations where killing is the result are not usually wholly the making of one side.

It is fine if a chartered organization chooses to monetarily pay for troop needs but there should be no expectation that they do so. The CO is not a troop sponsor, they are a partner. Their obligation is to select a chartered organization rep and a unit committee, and provide meeting space. Not money.

Obviously, every troop needs a gatekeeper to validate documents, "review" requirements, check and restest as he deems necessary, then apply his seal of approval only after close scrutiny. It's one of the more important positions in the Man Scouts.

Why did the CC sign the first app and refused the 2nd?

"FWIW, it is a silly requirement but in there to try to bolster numbers. First Class and below is about Scouting skills, not recruiting." We've had a bunch of boys join the troop over the years, specifically invited to join by another kid in the troop, even before the requirement was added. No one thought it was silly to grow the troop, or a stupid waste of time either.

You'd better stop selling bicycles; too much liability. What if you didn't tighten the nut to the specified torque? How long has is been since you had your torque wrench calibrated? Did you inspect the nut before installing it?

Soup is the last course of the meal. Say the main course is beef stew. Eat about 2/3 of the stew. Add hot water to the remainder. There is your vegetable beef soup. Add a little bit more at the very end, and your cup is 99% clean. Present the idea for what it is, soup, and it works. Present it as drinking dirty dishwater out of the sump, and it doesn't work so well.