FScouter

Thank you gentlemen.

Ah hah, so you're saying that if we don't understand something you wrote then it's because we're stoopid? It's not very Scout-like to call other people stoopid you know. (insert smily thingy) (which means I don't mean what I just said but I said it anyway with a smily thingy so I'm off the hook for being rude, or whatever that thingy is supposed to mean.) Relative to re-stating another person's position, a simple "could you re-word that?" would be more effective. It's his opinion, let him restate it. The audience must really question the motive when someone re-writes the position of another, making it read idiotically extreme in the process, and prefacing it with "so what you're saying is ..." . We have a few masters of that art here.

"You have to do your own research." The only research needed is what is taught in YP training. Report to the agency and/or SE listed in the handout given every participant. If you lost your handout, report to the SE and let him take it from there. That sounds like good common sense to me.

Good point Ed. Better to just look away and not get involved. It's probably the kid's fault anyway. That's what we teach in YP training right? Do an investigation first and when you have proof, then report. The most important thing is to be absolutely sure that you don't damage the reputation of the suspected perp. Please 'splain me if I'm missing the point of "youth protection".

Perhaps they've both decided there are things more important than arguing for the sake of entertaining Ed.

"A citizen should be very careful about making a formal, public complaint that someone is committing sexual battery against a child, eh?" Thanks for the warning ehh, I'll be verrry careful. If I think a kid is being hurt, I'll make the call, and won't call my personal attorney for a legal opinion first. If CPS turns it into a public case so be it. The kid's welfare is more important than any personal risk to me that somebody might get upset if I was wrong.

If you were continuously logged in, it might not reset. Perhaps look at your PC clock. Delete your Scouter.com cookie.

If a kid is getting abused, the legalities in various states don't mean squat as to whether a report should be made! All I need is a reasonable suspicion of abuse and I'm on the phone. Sure, there is all kinds of discussion to make about this law or that policy, but if a kid is hurting, moral law demands that a report be made.

Ed, you've tossed out that question 4 or 5 times in the last 3 days. So, how about it? What's your idea?

"Can we agree, as a bunch of brother and sister scouters, not to ever again accuse a brother or sister scouter of "not doing the BSA program" in public" No, not really. A person, even if registered, doing whatever he wants, does not equate to the BSA program. As adamantly as some promote a "do yer own thang" philosophy, there will be others (like me) just as adamant that the "BSA program" is fully outlined in the BSA publications, or what you rudely refer to as "paint-by-the-numbers must-do guides". That doesn't mean one must be rude in order to have a differing opinion, but pointing out how a practice is unsafe or outside even a liberal view of "program" isn't being rude. If wild ideas are publicly presented as being "BSA program", it should be perfectly acceptable and accepted to publicly point out they are not.

Beavah has a good suggestion. Kids aren't motivated by any speech from the SM about leadership being a goal or role or purpose of Scouting.

See the "Need Help Finding This" thread from 9-12-07. http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=166421#id_166449

If a buckle fails before it should, return it to the Scout Shop for a replacement. Most retailers/manufacturers pay a lot of attention to returns of poor quality goods.

How many bases did Pete Rose steal?? What was his best in any season? Ty's worst?

"Yah, yah, we all can read da BSA pamphlet on "how to select," ... No need to quote it to everyone here, eh?" We get a lot of misinformation on these forums, so it's always good to get good information straight from the source to balance the personal opinions from the myriad names that post here, ehh? Real stories from real units are interesting too, and hope we hear too how the leaders selected really worked out.

I could never totally understand the fascination with games of simulated killing of other people. It must be some sort of inborn instinct. Kinda like kittens that stalk and pounce on imaginary prey. They grow up and use those skills to find food and survive. Human nature is to kill other humans, and we let our young "play kill" to prepare them for life as an adult? It just doesn't seem to sync with our Mission.

BW, if I understand what you wrote correctly, your premise is "I volunteer to have absolutely comply." That's different from "I volunteer, will use the materials in the most appropriate way for my circumstances, but reserve the right to deviate left and right of the centerline when my circumstances necessitate it." Come on, lets be fair. If Scouting is a road, units are expected to stay between the left and right shoulders. When someone drives off the road and starts tearing up the countryside because he thinks he knows a shortcut, that is not a deviation from centerline necessitated by circumstances. Similarly, an agreement to comply doesnt mean stay on the centerline. There is no BSA centerline, only the road between the shoulders between which is a ton of space in which to maneuver.

Is this another one of those "dirty pool" threads?

We don't "put" a boy anywhere. He joins the patrol of his choice and which has invited him. That's usually going to be the patrol of the Scout that invited him to join. A group of boys that join at the same time, as in bridging from a pack, usually want to be together. Thus is born a New Scout Patrol. We don't push them into other patrols.

We have 10,000+ forum members here so while helping one specific member with a unique set is circumstances is all well and good, the rest of us can benefit from a wider discussion of the topic. And the one specific member can benefit too if he's interested in a bigger picture.

The first school of thought is each Chartered Partners' Scouting units are franchisees of Scouting, and that there is no flexibility for deviation whatsoever. Well, youve revealed which point of view you disagree with! (smiley thingy) It deserves to be pointed out however that no one I know about in these forums espouses no flexibility for deviation whatsoever. (another smiley thingy) My observation (in the forums) is that those that advocate using Scouting in the way that makes the most sense spend a lot of effort pointing out perceived flaws in the BSA model. After 98 years I have faith that BSA has already distilled out the program to best practices. It is a constantly evolving model to be sure, and yesterdays best gets morphed into a new best. But discarding todays BSA best practices in favor of home brew just doesnt seem to be the way to go.

"So tell me exactly how Jimmy Carter "caused" all those deaths?" I dunno. The author brought the man into story. He could have just said that in 1980 there were 2,392 deaths. But instead he chose to attribute the higher death rate to Carter: "in peace-loving President Carter's last year there were 2,392 deaths in the military." For me, that comment invalidates everything he says.

BSA Rules and Regulations -- Article X, Section 4. INSIGNIA, UNIFORMS and BADGES Clause 4. Prohibition of Alteration or Imitation a) No alteration of, or additions to, the official uniforms, as described in the official publications, or the rules and regulations covering the wearing of the uniform and the proper combinations thereof on official occasions, may be authorized by any Scouting official or local Council or any local executive board or committee, except the National Executive Board after consideration by the Program Group Committee.

Mr. Beavah sir, (smilely thingy) (winky thingy), I really take exception to your comments about the new Scout patrol. What Bob posted is straight out of the Scoutmaster Handbook. It is not a tweak and its not a personal made-up idea. Youd get farther swaying folks (at least this folk) to your point of view by promoting your own ideas. Tearing down others ideas and particularly BSA methods, and re-characterizing them as something ridiculous (like webelos 3) doesnt work at all for me. (winky, winky) If Scouting belongs as you say in the wide-open world surely youll tolerate a place for Scouting as described by BSA, no?

I really see no point in quibbling over statistics, samples, and data anomalies as it relates to First Class Emphasis Must you have undeniable statistics to "prove" any other part of the BSA program? Where are the stats that show a 90 minute troop meeting works? A campout every month? A court of honor? The patrol method?