FScouter

The value of a topic goes a little bit beyond answering a simple question posed in the opening post. And whether he is a troll or is intentionally "baiting" really matters not either. It's an interesting topic, as evidenced by the number of thoughful posts.

"Hence da confusion." NAC hasn't "done" anything, other than to attempt to make it clear that troops may not make up their own rules about blocking a boy's advancement. Its possible that one objective may have been to stop advancement appeals resulting from arbitrary troop advancement roadblocks. If units would simply do their job right the first time and actually train, coach, and mentor boys, they wouldn't be faced with having to kick a boy down and they wouldnt be faced with a helicopter parent pestering the national council to intervene. Nobody expects a SM to "fire" a boy leader. We expect the SM to train the boy to be successful. It may be a tough job, but some kids are tough, so you work a little harder at it. If any mistake was made, it was the national council actually thinking that renegade units would reform. Instead we now have bellyaching and untrue statements that the requirement has been watered down to hold a title and be registered. That aint it.

So "be active in your troop" has become "be registered". Serve actively in a position of responsibility has become "hold a title and not get kicked out". So the guidance they've been givin' is opposite to the way most of us do Scoutin'. They'd prefer yeh remove the kid before the time period because that's objective. That, in my opinion is a grossly dishonest mis-characterization of the rank requirement. And yet we hear it frequently from lots of folks that dont like the BSA statements on serving in a position. What rarely gets mentioned is that the SCOUTMASTER is charged with training the boy to be successful in his position of responsibility. If the SM sits on his fanny for 6 months and then tells the boy he did a lousy job, he (SM) has not done his job. The boy may have done a poor job in the position, but the time for the SM to address the boys struggle is as it is occurring. What BSA would prefer is that Scoutmasters actually do their job and train and mentor boys to fulfill the responsibilities of the positions; NOT kick them out. The BSA clarification on this is to make it clear that the SM cannot let a boy wander through his term of office and then declare he failed and must start over. The rank requirement is NOT NOT NOT simply be registered and hold a title.

Day camps in our council are $125. It's no secret around here that day camp is a fund-raising exercise. The expense budget runs around $30 a head. Like all Scouting events, the quality of the event is determined by the volunteers that run it.

You made several posts about stopping a camp from being sold and listed a web site and e-mail addresses. If that is over and done with, the web site would seem to serve no purpose now.

A lot of times I do think we spend a lot of energy trying to find a way to alleviate a transitory symptom that could be better spent working on the core issue.

Dan, congrats on the court of honor. Autisim can be better discussed in a topic devoted to itself. Might I suggest that the next post spin-off to a new topic?

"Gee Brian ..." What's with this "brian" stuff? Some kind of private joke or personal poke? It does seem rather infantile, else what is your point??

Welcome back, we missed you. Gee, I don't think I've ever read a "diatribe" from Merlyn. The folks most likely to be bitter are those that disagree with his views. No matter. Discussions about God, religion, atheism, anarchy, homosexuals, government, politics, socialism, bigotry, fascism, and Martian anal probes can easily be avoided by not visiting the Issues and Politics forum. And if it is only one forum member that gets your goat, the "Ignore This User" button is fully functional.

Yes, speaking directly to the boy(s) and parents involved in a specific incident is a fine way to deal with the behavior. Now what about the rest of the boys? Surely hood surfing should not become a topic verboten now because someone might get their feelings hurt. Do we stop talking about drug abuse because a boy in the troop got busted for dope? Frankly, I care more about educating the rest of the boys than about any mis-perception that the guilty parties are being publicly chastised.

LisaBob in her opening post questioned if there should be a Scouting consequence. "Keeping in mind that this wasn't at a scouting function, is there an appropriate "consequence" within scouting?" Not one person posting here has advocated that the troop not address the hood surf incident. So why is there objection to the comment that the decision to act or ignore lies with the troop? BSA does not REQUIRE action. Who else will determine the "consequence" if not the troop? I'm far more appalled at the idea that discussion should be avoided at a court of honor. The venue will have far greater attendance of parents, siblings, and Scouts than any troop meeting, committee meeting, PLC meeting, or campout. And nobody is going to come to a special meeting to talk about it.

Bob, and you were doing such a good job ignoring Ed, but finally succumbed.

Right. Which proves once again that the correct answer may be found with BSA and wrong answers proliferate all over the internet, including me when I carefully read and then misquote!

Nobody is going to check, but if you want to meet the requirements, they are very clearly detailed at the link provided by LadyLeigh. Three (3) pack events are required; 1 in June, 1 in July, 1 in August. The average attendance for the 3 in total must be at least half. That means you can still earn the award even if the June or July event had less participation; make it up on the August event.

"There's a one-per-customer limit, so you'd have to split up the orders." Did you ask if they would make an exception for a Scout troop, or must we lie to buy more than one and get the price?

Urinating every two hours is evidence the body has excess water to excrete; drink less.

Please respond in the duplicate topic.

"What happened to doing for the love of it????" You bet we love it and that's why we signed up. But loving it doesn't mean you have to pay for it too. When your son is the grubmaster for his patrol do you pay for the patrol food when you take him to the grocery store? When you pull into a campground do you pay the campsite fees for the troop? When you're the advancement chair do you pay for all the rank patches and merit badges? When it comes time to turn in the troop re-charter, do you pay the fees? There are 101 necessary expenses to operate a troop program. Why not have the boys mow some lawns and chop some firewood and sell some popcorn to pay for it? A Scout pays his own way.

Whatever you do try to avoid making it complicated. Our troop pays 10 cents per mile. The lead driver notes how many miles to and from the event and reports to the treasurer. Drivers simply write a note to the treasurer after the event requesting mileage reimbursement. It doesn't matter how full your tank was before or after, what brand gas you buy, whether you filled up at the cheap station or the brand name station, how many boys in your car, your MPG, or any estimates. No collecting fees as boys get in the car, no making change, no remembering who forgot their money. Gas for vehicles is simply one of the many expenses of running a campout, no different than the campground fee, propane for stoves, patrol food, or a replacement tent pole. All the stuff involved in running the program gets paid for by the boys, through their weekly dues, money-earning events, and campout fees.

The purpose of fundrasing is to provide the income necessary to fund the program for the current year. First develop the annual program. Then budget the costs required to implement the program. Then budget the income needed to pay the costs. Then plan the money-earning events to earn the income. By the end of the year the earnings should be mostly depleted. Boys don't join Scouting to help build up a war chest. Time spent fundraising when no funds are needed is a waste of program time. My advice to cubdadinnj would be to strenuously question the purpose of holding the next money-earning event. Here's some info on the unit budget plan for a pack: http://www.scouting.org/cubscouts/resources/packbudget.aspx

The Insignia Guide details uniform insignia and how it should be worn. It isn't a list of no-no's. Other than the G2SS, there is very little in BSA publications that list what is NOT part of the BSA program. Publications and training are about what "is". Any question about adult patrols ought to be answered by reading the "adult patrol" chapters in the Scoutmaster Handbook, Advancement book, Troop Committee guide, etc. etc. If there was any such animal in Scouting, those publications would detail how adult patrols are formed, how they are operated, and what their purpose might be. Of course, there is not even one sentence devoted to the idea. My personal opinion is that if there was any value to the idea of adult patrols, BSA would at the very least make mention of it.

I agree that I don't think much of our society bearing the cost of polio etc. on a segment that wants to opt out of immunization. Religious beliefs are all well and fine and everyone's entitled to believe whatever they want. But I take umbrage when one guy's belief puts my familys health at risk or places a burden on society. Immunization policy should lie with the governmental public health agencies. BSA should keep out of it.

The conflicting information referred to by cb2boys is 1) G2SS in one place says "strongly recommended", and 2) in another place says "the requirement". So the question is is are immununizations recommended or required? If there was no requirement, there would be no need for a waiver. I'd say one could require immunizations or not, and support the decision with the G2SS section that supports best.

The easiest way to boost mileage is to replace your wheels with smaller diameter wheels. You can drive faster AND get better mileage.

Neil is right. If y'all want to go any deeper with this, please spin it off in the Issues & Politics forum.