FScouter

The posts by Gold Winger, Ed, and Bob White all had the elements of insults and disparaging comments pointed at one another. All three of them have been reminded numerous times to knock it off. We ought to be able to treat each other with respect, and failing that, there is outside moderation. All the resulting off-topic comments about forum moderation in that topic have also been deleted, and those those folks that care to may re-post them in a topic devoted to that subject.

The Scouter forums are a place to meet other folks, ask questions, exchange information, ideas, and resources, and to experience a sense of camaraderie with one another. Were guided by the Scout Law; ideally, additional rules should not be necessary. Indeed, the forums have prospered for many years with very little in the way of rules. Formal rules should not be needed if we can all remember two guidelines: 1. Keep It Scout-like Play fair. Treat other forum members with respect. Keep the tone civil. Dont disparage another person or use personal insults. Be careful about sounding condescending or patronizing. Have patience with others that dont understand your point of view. Make an effort to understand the points of view of others. Consider if your post adds to the value of the forums, or just wastes other folks time. Avoid pointless chatter. Keep your post readable. Give some attention to grammar, spelling, and basic sentence structure. Your post is going to be read by thousands of others and becomes a permanent part of the Scouter.com Scouting resource. Put some thoughtfulness in your message. 2. Keep It Honest Express your opinion, but explain WHY you hold the opinion. Dont fabricate data to support your position. Dont claim to speak for BSA, or another group, or the majority, unless based on fact. Support your statements of fact with a source. Dont rephrase or restate the position of another person in a way that could be misleading. When quoting another person or source of information, be careful what you quote is not taken out of context. Dont misstate your identity, your role in Scouting, or your background. Frank FScouter Member of the moderator team

If anyone would like to discuss "forum moderation", feel free to start a new topic. Frank (FScouter) forum moderator team member

Per usual Bob you missed the whole point of the thread No his comments are exactly in line. Rather, the point of the thread is not to discuss your one outrageous claim of someone receiving an award not earned. We were discussing the appropriateness of BSA awards designed specifically to recognize monetary contributions.

It is required so that the employer can report earnings to the Social Security Administration to credit your account, it's intended purpose. It's defacto purpose now is a national identity number. Please move away from the alcove.

Mr. Brockman is still with us. May he live forever.

You sound like a very bitter person.

You talked to your merit badge counselor about this of course. What did he suggest?

When I made an FOS contribution I was given a special council shoulder patch. Should I give it back so I can be a "real" Scouter?

"Are there any others I have missed? " If you going to be cyanical, EVERY knot or award has a $price. To "buy" the Scoutmaster Key award add up the costs for driving to meetings and campouts, unreimbursed costs for equipment and supplies, training fees, your handbook cost, mileage to Roundtable etc., uniform, the value of your personal time, and dont forget you annual registration fee too. Thats adds up to a lot more than a couple of Philmont trainings ($420 each).

You do know that the YPT training is tailored to each particular council as to reporting requirements? The paper card I have for internet YPT states the council name and has no expiration date. YPT is a required training for a variety of activities (some mentioned in posts above) but there is no clear directive from the national council that ALL registered adults complete the training. In fact, it appears they have gone out of their way to avoid writing a specific requirement. See what the adult leader application says: "You are expected to complete Youth Protection Guidelines: Training for Volunteer Leaders and Parents or, if you are involved in Venturing, Youth Protection Guidelines: Training for Adult Venturing Leaders within the first 90 days of your registration." Of course, the local council or chartered organization may make YPT mandatory for all and set an expiration date. Surely though if they felt it that important it would be written somewhere such that it could be referred to and disseminated to members. If there is any objection to taking the training I think it would be more from being ordered to do so by the district chairman, or else, rather than actually doing it.

I'm beginning to see what you mean about the horse.

What is this "dead horse" theme all about that is running through several topics? Subjects that have interest generate posts. Dead topics don't. Might it be a bit presumptuous to ask others to stop discussing because one has lost interest? If we all did that, the forums would surely fold.

The sweater fits perfectly and will surely keep me warm. You put a lot effort into knitting it. I love you Mom.

The only policy I've ever heard of is about vulgar, obscene, sexually suggestive, or racist pictures or slogans. Even that shouldn't be necessary and could be handled on an individual basis. I've never heard of any policy prohibiting a band, team, theater, or any plain or non-BSA T-shirt. Has anyone else?

"I agree there should be a standard but prohibiting all non-bsa wear isnt the best answer in my opinion." Ageed. That would not be a good answer. I cannot even fathom any camp or council prohibiting all non-BSA clothing. Fortunately, there is no such BSA prohibition. I doubt any camp or council anywhere in the country has a non-BSA prohibition, and it has not even been presented as an suggestion anywhere is this topic.

"I was informed at our troop meeting that a Scout can only wear Scout t-shirts or plain (no writing on them) at camp. They can not wear anything that has advertising on it, I understand vulgar or offensive t-shirts." "Another ridiculous policy focusing energy on the wrong issues." What "policy" are you referring to?? We already established that stuff heard at a troop meeting does not constitute BSA policy. Where did you get the idea that anybody was going to force you to buy a week's worth of BSA t-shirts? Surely you're not arguing for the right to wear obscene t-shirts?

The number itself isn't worth much without the name, address, and DL # that goes with it, same as on the unit leader application. Could you post that too please?

The flag code contains no penalties for non-compliance, but that doesn't mean violations are "OK". A Scout obeys the laws of his community and his country. He doesn't first check to see if there are penalties for violation.

"A lot of the older ones just buy a 5 pack of white undershirts and throw them away after a days wear. I am beginning to see the sense of this." The wasteful habits exhibited in this country are abominable. I think I'll go read "The Rise & Fall of the Roman Empire" to see where we're headed. A Scout is thrifty.

The unit does have an outdoor activities coordinator. A Scout is thrifty. It would make sense for one person to address transportation rather than a dozen parents individually trying to figure it out.

7 pages (now 8) of discussion, yes. The answer has been quoted several times so is not elusive. The discussion is war stories, personal opinions in favor or against the answer. Implications that "Council" did or said this or that equates to "the answer". The uniform is defined in several places in the BSA pubs, as is when and how to salute the flag. That, and only that, is what is "official".

I have to retract what I said before and restate. The Boy Scout Handbook tells the boy what the uniform consists of, why he should wear it, and when (board of review by the way is not specifically mentioned). It does not indicate the uniform is not required. It is the Scoutmaster Handbook that talks about this: when to wear it, not wear it, how to help boys get one, and setting the example. A boy is not required to have a uniform in order to be a Boy Scout. However, troop leaders should set a good example by wearing the uniform themselves and by encouraging each Scout to acquire and wear a uniform. The Scoutmaster Specific Training segment on the uniform covers the topic as well. Boards of review is one of the occasions mentioned when the uniform should be worn, and it is made clear that applies to both Scouts and Scout leaders. It also says Ultimately, the boy inside the uniform, rather than the uniform itself, is what is important. I would have to say then that if the board wants to insist on a Scout wearing the uniform at a BOR, the board must also wear the uniform.

"The camp decided to have closing flags one day with no one in uniform. Two boys who did have uniform shirts on took them off to be part of the color guard." That perpetuates the myth that "uniform" is used as an adjective meaning "all dressed the same", rather than "uniform" the noun meaning a distinctive set of clothes worn to identify one's occupation or affiliation. In the case you describe, the color guard was uniformly out of uniform.

"I was informed at our troop meeting ..." "If it is, I continue to be amazed at the ways BSA thinks up to alienate it's customers." What has BSA done here? Nothing at all. Let's not even think about disparaging BSA because somebody at a troop meeting made a silly comment. Because some uninformed person made an unsubstantiated comment does NOT mean BSA has thought up a new way to alienate it's customers.