FScouter

Mike Long - I used to have a Kelty baby backpack. Some of my fondest memories are hiking through Yosemite National Park with my son in the pack. There is no difficulty hiking with a baby that cannot be dealt with, and the experience is the greatest.

When I took the course, it was an overnighter, Friday night and all day Saturday. It that still the case?

Is the adult a registered scouter acting in the capacity of an adult scout leader? Or is he just a dad observing an outing from the sidelines? I would not want a uniformed, registered adult leader using heavy handed disciplinary tactics with any scout, even if the scout is his son.

Id like to see and build some of the projects in the pioneering merit badge book. Rope tackle would interest me. There is more than one way to lay a fire. What are the advantages and disadvantages? Whats the best way to get usable coals for cooking? Whats the best way to get a fire going with one match on a windy day? First class first aid is good, but wilderness first aid may be beyond the scope of the course. Tracking would be interesting. We may never actually track anything, but it would be fun to teach the boys how to find evidence of the presence of a wild creature. In the course I took, there were some leaders that were new to scouting, and new to the outdoors. Some would be hard pressed to erect a clothesline between two trees. Those leaders particularly need a hands-on experience.

It's not his uniform to decorate according to his personal tastes. Strange he would take this so far as to be dismissed rather than correctly wearing the uniform. Is he trying to make a statement?

When I did this training, I would have liked to have seen more hands-on sessions. Give me knots, pioneering, fire lays, lighting of various stoves, knife and hatchet sharpening, camp gadgets, cooking, shelter construction, first aid. We got a lot of displays to look at, and a lot of talk, but not a lot to actually DO.

1. I dont believe criticisms toward Bob are necessarily for his opinions and statements. I see the criticisms more as rebuttals to his own criticisms of the ideas, processes, practices, and policies of others. I dont think people resent the information or the knowledge he has to offer. They resent the implication, sometimes not so subtle, that they are a poor leader, untrained, or less of a person, because they have ideas or practices that conflict with the scouting way. Bob doesnt seem to accept that most of us of us have not had the same amount of training as he. When we do something wrong, it is not necessarily because we intentionally want to violate the book or the program. It is because we just dont know. Scouters and troops formulate practices based on the best information and experience that they have. I dont believe they dont intentionally adopt practices that conflict with BSA policies and methods. No one likes to hear that their ideas or practices are wrong. People are put off when someone (Bob) comes along and dismisses their ideas as wrong, and presents his own way as right. People are not going to quickly drop their current way and adopt a different way because of a posting on a message board. Bob sometimes doesnt seem to understand that. When Bob responds in a demeaning way, that puts people off. People come to this board to look for helpful ideas, and dont want to be put down and belittled in the process. Bob does that. He doesnt like a debate and an exchange of ideas, unless the ideas are the right ideas. I believe that with a open exchange of ideas, both right and wrong, people will be able to filter it all out and come to the right conclusions. Bob cant wait that long. Wrong ideas are quickly squelched, and his way, which he presents as the BSA way, is presented as the only way. That may be so, but some people are skeptical and need to go through the discussion and debate process and come to that conclusion on their own. Meeting the ideas and thoughts of others with derision does not facilitate that process. Before change will happen, people need to first understand the benefits of changing to a new practice, and the problems with their current practice. This understanding process takes a bit of time, and isnt quick enough for Bob. This natural reluctance of people to immediately abandon an established practice frustrates him and he subtly or not so subtly portrays the poster as untrained, unwilling to learn, a bad leader, etc. Belittling, demeaning, and sarcastic comments cause further entrenchment. 2. People frequently direct questions specifically to Bob. Other posters get far fewer direct questions. Why? Other posters do not present themselves as the final authority on all Scouting topics. Bob does. Other posters do not attempt to answer every question that is posted. Bob does. Other posters may not respond to posts for hours or even days later. Bob frequently responds within minutes. I sometimes wonder when he sleeps, and how he gets any work done at his day job! When a poster needs an authoritative answer now and is not interested in developing a discussion, Bob is the one to ask. Now, having said all this, I see Bob as a very welcome addition to the board. His knowledge is extensive, and I have learned much from his being here.

Out here in California, there is an additional number in the sequence which is the council number where the training takes place.

How fun! You'll soon be getting one of those baby packpacks so you can take her with you on those hikes. Get 'em started early!

Here is a complilation someone put together: www.sonet.net/usr/troop56/bsfamous.htm

Ultraviolet sunlight tends to break down the waterproofing and fabric. Set up in the shade whenever possible.

BobWhite Our numbers DE is no longer our DE. He accepted a council executive position in another state. I dont mean to demean him at all, and I dont have any knowledge about his recruiting habits other than my personal experience with him. OGE asked about scouters perceptions of their DE, and I simply offered my perception of our DE. I am extremely proud of our boys and our troop. Our troop was started from scratch with three 11 year old boys and two fathers that wanted a troop in our community. There was lots of struggling. We have grown and made worlds of progress since then, but are still not ready to start a venturing crew.

OldGreyEagle Without commenting on our district executives interest in the quality of the program, or lack thereof, my observation is that he is very much concerned with the number scout units in our district. When our troop was small and struggling, he called me one evening and almost begged me to start a venturing crew. He said venturing was so great for the boys, they would love it, and he would fill out the application and all I had to do was sign it and could I please come in tomorrow morning to sign it. I tried to explain that we were struggling as it was, had only 6 boys in the entire troop, and had only one boy older than 12. He said that was no problem at all, we could just recruit some more boys later, but could I please come in tomorrow to sign the application. I found out later that his numbers were due to the council the next day. Im sure theres no connection, but our district has had a number of failed units during his the tenure. I guess there must be a problem with the program volunteers. Our DE has a lot of good points, he gets a lot done, and can be very helpful. But his fixation on numbers made me see him in a new light.

This old thread has more discussion about how to split profits from money-earning events.

The Troop Committee Guidebook #34505 should have most or all of the information youre looking for relative to who owns the troop and how leaders are selected. Chapter 2 is The Organization of Scouting, and Chapter 5 is Selecting and Recruiting Adult Leaders. The book is available at the scout shop, through the catalog, or through the web site. Some quotes: Your troop is owned by a chartered organization ..., Each chartered organization using the Scouting program provides a meeting place, selects a Scoutmaster, appoints a troop committee of at least three adults, and chooses a chartered organization representative. ... your troop must be operated within the organizations policies. The chartered organization must also approve all adult leaders. The chartered organization representative is your liaison to the troops operating organization. The responsibility of approval (and removal) of adult leaders lies with the chartered organization and the chartered organization representative. The Scoutmaster and assistant scoutmasters are responsible for delivering a quality program to the boys. It sounds like your CO and COR are not familiar with how Scouting is structured, what their responsibilities are, and what the responsibilities of the SM are. Does your CO really want a loose cannon like this?

ScouterPaul - I think I understand what you are asking. If a boy attends five campouts, but no other types of activities, has he met the requirement for second class? I would have to say that the requirement for two campouts out of the five is there to ensure that the boy gets a minimum amount of camping experience. If his other three troop/patrol activities happened to also be campouts, that should be fine. It would mean that the boy did not participate in a day hike, or a money-earning event, or a service project, but if those kinds of activities were required, they would be listed as being required. Or the requirement would say "no more than two campouts". Scouting is heavily involved in outdoor activities. As Bob pointed out, several other requirements can only be accomplished while camping.

Hmmm... Why would one NOT wear the uniform to a PLC meeting? Next meeting, ask one of the PLC members in street clothes to justify to the group how street clothes are appropriate for a PLC meeting.

Agreeing with Bob, the "OR" restriction for Eagle rank is a restriction for Eagle, not for Star or Life. Sounds like someone in your troop wants to deny Star or Life rank based on what mix of the 15 badges a boy earned?

Is there really a purpose served by responding tit for tat to rude comments? Theres no need to lower oneself to the level of a rude or insulting person. Yaworski has raised some interesting points in various discussions on these boards. Though his style may be somewhat abrasive, and his frustration has boiled over here, that does not invalidate the points that have been raised.

Gold is a lighter color metal than bronze, and silver is a lighter color than gold. Thus, bronze, gold, silver, with the lightest color being the top award, and the darkest color being the first award. So I heard.

I believe colors for the service star backs were chosen because they contrast with the color of the uniform shirt. A green backing on a green Venturing shirt or a blue backing on a blue Cub shirt would be hard to see.

There are hundreds of special award patches in scouting, including the World Conservation Award. A boy can wear one at a time on the right pocket, temporarily. When he earns another, he takes the old one off the pocket and puts it on his brag rag, blanket, backpack, or whatever.

Could you not assume a position as a committee member, perhaps with responsibilities more acceptable to the committee?

bump

The home-built boxes I've seen are nice. We use the Wal-Mart plastic tubs. Just haven't found extra time to build a custom box.