FScouter

"Calling a person a liar is rude." Hunt is right on. The term is tossed around much too much. I personally discount the argument of anyone that resorts to calling their opponent a "liar". When the "liar" accusation is made, I tune out.

It makes no difference at all whether the 8 methods are created equal. Even if BSA declared that the uniform was at the bottom of the list, how does that equate to not wearing it? How does street clothes make better Scouts? What Scouting purpose do we accomplish by skipping the uniform method? How does ditching the uniform help us better achieve the aims of Scouting? Telling boys to wear a uniform on specified occasions is a not-so-subtle statement that street clothes are good enough the rest of the time. What Scouting purpose is served by telling boys the uniform is not important except for specified occasions? By the way, I have NEVER heard a boy say that Scout pants are uncomfortable or impractical. Dorky yes, but never uncomfortable. That is strictly an adult excuse. In fact, other than dorky, all the myriad uniform excuses are made up by adults in attempts justify their personal likes and dislikes. Lastly, it is not our position as adult leaders to decide that the uniform hinders Scouting. We have a national organization that makes those kinds of decisions. Our responsibility is to achieve the aims of Scouting through the methods of Scouting, including the uniform method.

"Hello? I'm Joe Doakes from XYZ council. Hey, that bin item isn't on the ScoutNet. Could you please send a dozen to our council address? Thanks, you're a lifesaver." Then tell the girl to let you know when they arrive. Might work. On the other hand if you say you're Joe Parent, they will tell you that your council can get you a copy of that. "Sorry, those publications are available only through the council."

It's possible it is discontinued. It's also possible that it does indeed exist, but the individual doing the looking is looking in the wrong place. From what I understand, the listing of bin items in the ScoutNet system is a mess. They are not listed in any logical sequence. It's necessary to hunt around looking here and there. The system response time is very slow too, so it can be a very frustrating task. I'd guess your council person spent 5 minutes looking and gave up. You could try calling the Supply Division (800 # in the catalog) and asking. Try to sound like a council person and not Joe Parent.

What you were told is correct. The BoR is composed of committee members, mainly for the reason Spiney related. Also, the SM and assistants have enough other things to do. The SM is expected to attend the committee meetings to report on how the troop is doing and the needs of the troop. He is not a member of the committee. Assistants should be welcome to attend too. Likewise, assistants cannot be members of the committee. Refer to the Advancement Committee book #33088D and Troop Committee Guidebook #34505B for more info.

Numerical targets make it too easy on the boy. How about "Son, you need to attend meetings and activities, and be an active member of the troop. If you don't participate, you need to be able to explain whether or not you have been active." Give him something to think about. The unit leader doesn't need to decide for the boy. Just as the boy knows whether he lives the Scout oath and law in his daily life, he knows in his heart whether or not he has been active. Make him be responsible for defining and being "active" and help him to become a responsible adult.

Suppose the shoe was on the other foot. A church is running an event. A group of homosexuals come along and start espousing their views and waving gay pride signs, interrupting the church event. The church people come out and try to put a stop to it. The police come. Who gets arrested?

Two ideas: -Publish the topic for the next RT in advance. Newsletter, web site, e-mail, flyer, or whatever. Announce at RT too. - Get a list of WDL's from the district and give each a personal phone call and invite them to come.

These kinds of situations will always arise, though maybe not to this level of severity. The life lesson I want to impart to boys is that in our patrol, in our troop, and throughout our entire lives, there will always be a person we will have trouble working with. It may be a boss, a co-worker, a family member, a teacher, a neighbor over the back fence, someone in the community, an elected official. We must find ways to work with difficult people. Wishing them away into the cornfield is never an option.

It sounds like you have a committee of "tweakers". Whether or not BSA wears a uniform is totally and completely out of the hands of the local unit. I would guess the reason they're having a continuing discussion is because they think the unit has options to change it or eliminate it. The committee is there to support the Scoutmaster in delivering the BSA program to boys. I'd suggest they read the Troop Committee Guidebook and when they are completely fulfilling all the committee functions, then they can spend the remaining valuable meeting time discussing whether or not the uniform is a good idea or whether BSA should ditch it.

I'd say it doesn't much matter, since Boy Scouts is a uniformed organization.

"What I am wondering is, have I missed something in one of the books that spells this out?" I suppose BSA didn't think it was necessary to spell that one out.

It's hard to tell from his post, but it almost sounds like they have "uniformed adult leaders" that are not registered. In my mind that would be worse than a bonafide registered adult that won't wear the uniform.

"So the terms were adapted unofficially into Scouting." Unofficial Scouting is an oxymoron.

Once a person had decided to forego uniform pants, what difference does it make what color the alternative is?

"Quality Unit" refers to the unit in which a member is registered.

Adding to Eammon's ideas, a meeting with the parents is a good time to do the Scoutmaster meeting requirement for the Arrow of Light award.

"... has anyone noticed that prices for BSA items or merchandise keeps going up each year?" I noticed that too. Food, gas, 2x4's, and rent too.

Why were you glad you asked?

Dan makes a good point. If the word doesnt filter down to the unit, how can Joe Scouter be held accountable? I recall seeing the memo on the internet somewhere. It looked official enough, on BSA letterhead. I think it was dated about 8 or 10 years ago. There have been several updates to the Handbook, Insignia Guide, and training syllabi since then, but no mention of any camo restriction. Maybe that is because BSA has already made it perfectly clear that Boy Scouts wear Boy Scout pants. It is superfluous to additionally state what is NOT appropriate, including camo, blue jeans, orange shorts, pink pedal pushers, ad infinitum. Its very simple. Boy Scouts wear Boy Scout pants. What else needs to be published? Custom unit rules and class letter designations with various meanings only complicate and confuse the issue. The BSA uniform and options are clearly stated. Other stuff is simply not the uniform. Confusion comes when we take something simple and fiddle with it to fit our personal likes and dislikes.

The on-line local tour permit application is available on the national website: http://www.scouting.org/forms/ltp/index.html

Encouraging Scouts to salute the flag is a good thing. At the same time, why not also encourage them to wear their complete uniforms?

BSA is interested in avoiding problems when units go touring. Problems that lead to injured members, or lawsuits, or bad images presented to the public, among other things. The tour permit also gets the unit leadership to consider some aspects of the activity they may not have considered, such as whether drivers have insurance. A review of a units plans, through the tour permit, gives the council the opportunity head off problems that may develop. A change in plans that may affect the approval should require a revised permit. A different destination, different activity, or different tour leader would all seem to call for a revised permit and new approval.

This discussion may be picky, or not. It depends on your point of view. There is a right way. The standard to which we should work is the standard BSA has given us. When we salute the flag as a Scout, we are representing the Boy Scouts of America. The public is watching what we do. Boys are watching what we do. Why not do it the best way, the right way? The best way, the right way, is to wear a complete and correct uniform. Anything less is ... less than best. Your questions are good considering the sloppiness we so often see when Scouts salute the flag. 1. Scouts should follow the saluting protocol determined by BSA and published in the Scout Handbook. I would not question whether BSA is violating the U.S. Flag Code. There is nothing in the Code that would suggest that Scouts should not salute the flag. The Code does not define uniform, nor does it specify which organizations may or may not wear uniforms. Id say that whatever other organizations do is between them and the flag code. Boys Scouts should follow the direction of BSA. 2. The uniforms (both field and activity) are defined by BSA. There is no degree of uniform. A Scout is either in uniform or not in uniform. Other than the neckerchief, hat, belt, and activity shirt options, troops have no authority from BSA to decide what constitutes a uniform. A troop that decides Walmart pants and white socks may be worn instead of Scout pants and Scout socks has decided they will be always be out of uniform. A Scout wearing only the tan Scout shirt is not in uniform, he is wearing the tan shirt. If a troop wants to salute the flag wearing only a shirt, no one is going to be arrested. This would just be a troop out of uniform, saluting the flag, against the standard set by BSA. 3. If a troop opts to not include a hat as part of the uniform, any Scout in the troop wearing a hat, BSA, Yankee, or otherwise, would be out of uniform. If he takes it off, hes back in uniform. Again, a boy wearing a Scout hat when the troop has voted no hat is not going to be arrested.

AV-09V010 is titled "Youth Protection: Boy Scout and Cub Scout Leadeer Training Module Video". I do not know whether it is a current title or not. You could find out by call the national supply division (800 number in the catalog) and ask if it is available for sale. I don't know how this video should be used, but if it is only 20 minutes long I'd suspect it does not satisfy the Youth Protection requirement. The standard training is AV-09V001A, "Youth Protection Guidelines Training for Volunteer Leaders and Parents", starring Cordelia and crew. The video runs 65 minutes including two 3-minute discussion breaks in the middle. By the way, this training comes with a 4-page handout for participants, in addition to the local council reporting policy, and reporting form. If you're not getting the handout you're being cheated.