FScouter

"No one-on-one contact."

"Our pack meetings have no theme, and there are almost never any songs or skits done by dens at the pack meetings. It's kind of pitiful, really." Some people just want to re-invent the wheel, even if their custom wheel has flat spots. You don't get extra points for "I did it my way". I guess there is just something about being in charge that fascinates some people. Kind of like the man who won't ask for directions, or doesn't need the owner's manual to assemble his kid's Xmas toy.

A PATROL campout (sans adults).

I can think of two purposes of the board of review that are not fulfilled if boys run them. If your purpose is to give boys responsibility, maybe they are not getting that because you've taken it away from them in some other areas? I only see negatives in your practice. Maybe you could explain to the rest of us exactly how you arrived at the conclusion that the BSA method is inadequate and how your way is better without losing any of the BSA benefits??

Is that the one where he said "a man's got to know his limitations to make my day"? If one boy forgot his pocketknife on a campout, would the rest of the patrol leave their knives in the car as a show of unity? How about the 7 boys that wear their neckerchiefs help the 8th to remember too?

It's easy to slam "council" and the SE. I'll bet that your council does not have a chairman of the Activities and Civic Service committee (a volunteer position). That person would be the one you should slam. If your SE is trying to do the volunteer jobs too, don't be too harsh if he doesn't get it all done.

"What's bigger than first amendment rights?" The first amendment is a big one. It needs to be protected. But this issue about a government schools/religion/BSA threat to the first amendment is a fly speck. The government is establishing a religion? The government is preventing the free exercise thereof? I dont see much use for the ACLU if this is the biggest civil liberties fish that needs frying.

"... if 1 scout is not in uniform, they all get that way. If one is missing a scarf, they all start missing theirs real quick." Why would they do that? Would the boy without a neckerchief feel inadequate if he's the only one without? When a formal uniform inspection is done, points are awarded for the completness of each boy's uniform. There's no bonus for the group all missing the same parts.

"So, it would appear that Geoffrey the Giraffe could be selling a little more than toys from aisle 12." Hmmm... you may be on to something. There oughta be a law about these disgusting practices. How can we get this stopped? Don't we have a government office that handles this kind of stuff? And how does this trash talk affect the character of our boys? I'm absolutely appalled that BSA would look the other way on this.

Bylaws are unique to the council. There are generic bylaws suggested by the national org, which are modified as needed by the local council.

Do you force them to sign the committment papers in blood, or will ink suffice?

You're right. BSA products are sold only through BSA and a few licensed retailers. The coat offered on that web site is a nice red coat that is similar to the BSA Jac-Shirt. The fact they throw in an illegal knockoff patch doesn't make it a BSA Jac-Shirt.

A Den Chief for a den led by another adult gets interaction with an adult other than his parents. This is a good thing. A Den Chief for a den led by his parent does not get this interaction. He is still a Den Chief, but misses out on part of the experience he might otherwise get. The convenience or lack thereof for the parent/DL is not relevant to the quality of his Den Chief experience. If however, the convenience factor determines whether or not the boy is a Den Chief at all is another matter.

One of the aims of Scouting is character development. Interaction with other adults helps to achieve that aim. Boys have plenty of time to interact with Mom and Dad outside of Scouting. Opportunities with other adults are more limited. If a boy wants to be a den chief, I'd steer him to a den where his parent is not the DL. I don't think the convenience factor is relevant to the mission and aims of Scouting.

Do better in 2 sentences. The point is that "more profits" is NOT the reason to go overseas, and doing so does NOT ensure more profits.

"That equates to more profit for the stockholders." Not really. Companies go overseas to stay competitive. There costs are lower, but their selling price is lower too. Profit is the same. Company A makes a shirt here, sells it for $20 and makes a profit. Company B imports a shirt from overthere, sells it for $16 and makes a profit. Company A loses sales, then goes overthere for a lower cost, then sells here for $16. Now Company A is competitive again. The profit is the same.

It is a good book. A sobering reminder that there is no glory in war.

Sounds like basic training for the military. After all that, the actual trek would be a casual walk in the park.

t487scouter made a comment in the other thread: "... but if for instance there are 2 scouts in one patrol and 8 in the others would it not be better for the boys to absorb into the other patrol(s)?" Boosting the number of boys to 10 creates its own difficulties. Primarily, 10 is more difficult for a PL to manage. The ideal size is 6-8 boys. A more difficult solution to the 2-boy patrol is to recruit 3 or 4 more boys. Too late now, but what happened to the rest of the patrol? They didn't all become SPL. Sadly, the easiet solution is not necessarily the best solution.

"The instructions for the BOR are the the Scout should be neat in appearance. Defining 'neat' is not adding to the requirements, it is clarifying them." I have to agree with Eamonn that adding to the requirements is not appropriate. "Neat" is not listed in the Boy Scout handbook as a requirement for a board of review. Thus there is no point in defining or clarifying it. Boys dont read the Advancement Committee policies book. Scout Spirit is a requirement and a boys adherence to the Scout Law is a part of Scout Spirit. The "clean" law seems to apply, maybe "courteous" too. In this case, the board member imposed a requirement that the board of review would not start unless the boy removed the earring. The boy was denied a review. That action is totally indefensible. Its interesting to note too that "Scout Spirit" is not even a requirement for the Tenderfoot rank.

So... who was the winner of the confrontation?

The requirement is 8 patrol members, or increase from whatever you have.

"... lack of patrol spirit/identity. Times after times, we have to combine patrols together ..." What purpose is served by combining? What can a patrol of 8 get done on a campout that a patrol of 3 cannot? A patrol has it's own spirit and identity. 3 or even 2 boys on a campout can still function as a patrol. Combining patrols kills that identity.

I'd guess he just doesn't like bacon.

Wow. It's a good thing he didn't lose his 1st Class rank patch instead.