FScouter

OGE has good advice. One approach would be to ask what problems does the troop have that are not addressed in the BSA resources. If there is a problem with troop merit badge counselors, deal with that issue and if a by-law is the best way to solve that problem then write one. Ask, "Who is the counselor that is not being objective and certifying completion of MB requirements that have not been done?" Ask "What evidence do we have of this allegation?" Ask "Have we discussed the problem with him?" If he has continued to be a poor counselor, has the committee advised the district merit badge dean that one of the approved counselors is doing a poor job? Ask "Is there any reason why we should not pursue having him removed as a counselor and solve the problem that way." I'd guess that no one will want to point a finger, and if they won't, then it must not be much of a problem. I would question if a by-law would be respected and followed if the BSA policies are not being respected and followed? If there are adults that refuse to follow the BSA policies found in the BSA resources, the problem will not be solved by writing a by-law. The problem is the adult. One other thing. Committee job descriptions suggested by BSA can be found in the Troop Committee Guidebook

"The new SM has not had one COH in over 9 months, is not interested in either boy or adult training ..." The committee can get adults signed up for training. The committee can also plan a court of honor. No need to wait for the SM on these two items.

Laurie - I think the acrimonious portions of this debate are reactions to several comments made by several people: he needs his SM to sign his blue card & assign a merit badge counselor. A normal reading of this would suggest that Scoutmaster has discretion to decide which name to give the Scout. If there is a choice of sending a boy to a stranger or someone I know will do a good job, I'm going to "assign" that counselor. The SM is the one who determines which merit badge counselor the Scout will use! That means the SM picks one counselor for the Scout. Well, if you read that LITERALLY then it means the Scout has to go to the Scoutmaster and the Scoutmaster is the one who gives the boy ONE counselor's name. I also see no problem with the Scoutmaster giving the name of the counselor to the boy. it seems to be clear that the Scoutmaster gives the name of ONE counselor to the Scout. Im with you on this one. Discuss it with the boy and give him info, and let the boy make his own decision. Dictating is not productive.

Sorry if my post came across badly. When I see comments posted that I disagree with, or that are misleading, I feel obligated to post my personal experience, only for the benefit of the hundreds of other readers. The purpose is not to attack, but rather to post a challenging viewpoint. The fact is that Boy Scout pants in normal adult sizes up to waist 50", and in the standard cotton/poly blend fabric currently cost $45.80. Boy sizes cost $37.35. That is the price anyone in the country will pay at any national Scout Shop, or through the catalog. It is inflamatory and misleading to publicy post that the price is "$55.00, $56.60, $59.55", when that is not correct. The price for tall sizes, extra stout sizes >50" waist, wool fabric, or custom fit are more. If they are bought at a licensed retailer like the local sporting goods shop or hardware store, the price will be whatever that particular retailer wants to charge. So maybe you bought a something non-standard. If pants wore out after 54 hours of wear, take them back and ask for a replacement. My personal experience is that I'm into the 7th year on one pair of pants and the 5th year on a second pair. And neither is worn out yet. My personal experience is that the fit is perfect for my body. My personal experience is that everything I normally carry in pockets fit just fine into uniform pants pockets. One more comment is that the Boy Scout uniform was not designed for hiking, backpacking, or 10-day 65 mile Philmont treks. It is not reasonable to expect that uniform pants fulfill that function. BSA does not make such an animal and it's not fair to complain that the pants don't work for those activities as well as a high-tech product from Columbia or elsewhere. You'll be happier with hiking and climbing and backpacking clothes that are designed for those purposes.

"He'll give you the answer that you'll endorse..."

Our patrols write their own menus and submit them to either the SPL or an assistant Scoutmaster for review. If the menu consists of poptarts, cup-o-noodles, and pop, they are asked to review chapter 10 of the Boy Scout Handbook and discuss how their menu is supported by what they've learned from the handbook. Then they are asked which one of them will be working on 2nd Class req # 2g or lst Class #4a, and how he can meet the requirement with the existing menu. No rules, no policies, no pre-approved food lists. Just teach them what they need to know, give some ideas, and let them know they're expected to follow through. This is not the easiest way, but they learn better. Remember that the objective is NOT that the boys eat the right foods on a campout. Rather it is that they plan, select, shop, cook, and eat in a healthy manner. It is to help them make decisions that will help them throughout their lives.

If you paid $55 for a pair of pants, you got ripped off. The current price of pants for adults up to size 50 is $45.80. Boy sizes are $37.35. Are you trying to bolster your case by padding the numbers? Or did you splurge and get the expensive wool pants? I'll be getting a new pair soon. I own 2 pair, one bought in 1999, the other about 2 years later. I wear the pants for every Scouting activity except for backpacking. Sometimes up to 3 nights per week. The first is starting to look a little ragged. I've gotten good use out of them, but I tend to take care of my equipment. One night a week for 9 months?

Decision making. Part of growing into a man involves making decisions. Part of Scouting is helping boys make decisions. Is it really our objective to ensure that the boy gets the "best" counselor. It's more important, I believe, that the boy be confronted with a decision about which he has no information with which to guide him. Let's say you need an attorney to draw up some legal document for you. How do you go about finding the "best" attorney? Do you look down the list in the yellow pages and pick any one? Or do you ask a friend or colleague for a recommendation. Maybe you call 2 or 3 attorneys on the list and ask some questions. Could a boy get a positive learning experience by doing the same thing? Is it really better to do this work for him and simply hand him a pre-selected counselor? By doing so, I believe we miss a learning opportunity. And what if he picks the wrong counselor? How bad could this be that an adult must step in first to prevent it?

Maybe the objective is to kill three Cub events at once by combining Blue & Gold, Arrow of Light, and bridging into one long evening.

I think the youth participation here is valuable. It helps though to know who is posting, Cub adult, Boy Scout adult, or youth. It help put into perspective the thoughts being presented. Perhaps a star next to the username of our youth members?

Sctldr is correct. There is one "key" award, called the Scouter's Key. The knot representing the medal is green and white on a tan background. The key award can be earned as a Scoutmaster, Varsity Coach, Skipper, Venturing, Commissioner, or District Committee member. The requirements are different for each phase. A device is pinned to the knot to show for which phase the key was earned. The Scouter's Training Award is different. The knot representing the medal is green on a tan background. The training award can be earned by any adult Boy Scout leader. A device is pinned to the knot to show for which phase the award was earned. The requirements for each phase are different. The details may be found in the current edition of the Leadership Training Committee Guide release 'F', 2003. The U.S. Scouting Service website lists the old requirements from the 2001 edition, though they incorrectly list the source as the 2003 edition. MB.com also lists the old requirements. The current requirements for the Scouter's Key for a Scoutmaster (Scoutmaster's Key) are listed in my earlier post in this thread.

"ayone who buys that [popcorn], loses 5-6 bucks" Where does the lost money go? Who benefits? What is the purpose of money-earning events? Why do we do fund-raising?

Have you exhausted all possible courses of actions to help get either of the two existing troops on the right track?

I put the boy's current position there. Down the road, he'll look at the certificate and remember the position he held when he took the training. If he does the training again next year, he'll get a certificate with possibly a different position listed.

"sugared or honey dipt". That's like gilding the lily. Go out around Indio or Palm Springs and find an untended tree. Pick up hundreds. Dates are the best. The most perfect candy. I put them in my trail mix.

I was responding to the guy that implied there were reasons (plural) to deny a conference ("... the reasons that a SM may deny an SM conference"). The only reason I would use is that the boy had not completed the requirements for the rank. If he asked, I'd look at his book and point out the requirements remaining that he needed to get completed and signed off. I guess that discussion could even be considered a SM conference, so I'll change my statement to say there is never a reason to deny a conference.

Introduction to Outdoor Leader Skills is designed for adult troop leaders. It teaches the skills necessary to teach Boy Scouts the outdoor skills requirements for Tenderfoot through First Class ranks. Cubs don't do most of what is covered in OLS.

Sounds OK to me. "A Scout earns his own way." The key would be to find a stone for a dollar. Sounds iffy.

I didn't get out of these comments that a commissioner should not take training, but rather that a commissioner should not be expected to attend a pack campout in the role of a BALOO trained pack leader. The pack leadership should be the ones to assume the roles of leadership in the pack, not the commissioner.

A long time ago one of the troop committee members and I (SM) thought it would be important to have a set of written bylaws. I took on this task. The first step was to write down several categories of topics that were important: advancement rules, election process for leaders (boys and adults), rules about money and spending it, discipline and punishment, appeals process, etc., etc., etc. We copied bylaws from about 12 or 15 other troops and began the process of taking the best ideas from these other bylaws, adding our own, and distilling everything down into one document. I spent a lot, (a LOT) of time making sure every possible point was covered so that any question that ever came up in the troop could be answered from the bylaws book. After much editing and distilling the 8th draft of this document was 72 pages long. Then came the fun part. Copies of the draft were distributed to the committee members and we began discussions. After several monthly committee meetings, we barely got beyond page 5. There were so many "what if" questions that came up that we simply got bogged down and stuck. I looked for help and answers and found it on this forum. The result was that the 72 page draft book of bylaws was condensed down to a 6 half-sheet page booklet and re-named a Parent Guide. Copies were made and distributed to everyone. Since then new boys have come into the troop and soon there were no more Guides to hand out. I found that there was nothing in the Guide that could not be communicated with a short in-person welcome to the boy and his parents. I tell them when we meet, that dues are $1 per meeting, where the Scout Shop is, and that the Patrol Leaders' Council plans the troop activities. I tell them about the Scout Promise and Scout Law, and that the boy will need a Handbook. There isn't much more to tell. The boys learn the details about what is needed and expected by being active in the troop. I never would have believed it at the time, but our troop functions very well with nothing more than the Boy Scout Handbook, the Scoutmaster handbook, the Committee Guide, and training. I cannot tell you how much of a relief it is not having our troop burdened by "by-laws".

Keep in mind the intended use of the Boy Scout uniform. It is not designed and not intended for camping or Philmont treks. One would not wear high tech hiking clothes to a court of honor or a troop meeting. The uniform is perfect for the activities for which it is intended. No one is excluded from anything because of the uniform or lack thereof.

"I'm rather surprised that Scouting not only permits but requires that parents be elgible to act as Merit Bade Counselors for their children and sign off requirements." There is no policy that addresses parents, children, and merit badge counselors. Do you mean something else?

By-laws are like the constitution of the organization. They cover the purpose of the organization, who can be a member, how officers are elected, terms of office, rules of debate. Standing rules are adopted from time to time, such as "Refreshments will be provided by the members on a rotating basis", or "the padded chairs may not be used outdoors" or "eating is not permitted during meetings".

Well, you proved Bob right. Your first bylaw is in conflict with the BSA program. This is fun. Give us another one.

Your idea about a Scoutmaster conference is a good start. The boy probably needs more encouragement and coaching than some other kids. The board of review would not be a good time for him to find out his leadership efforts were inadequate. It would certainly be demoralizing for him too.