FScouter

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I too am happy to join the moderator team. Think of us first as members of the forum community, as everyone is. I can only hope to meet the level of expertise demonstrated by Hops and OGE. Comments, observations, and suggestions are welcome. As Terry has related, we're here to help keep the ship on course.

I like that approach and I've used it as well. Sometime you have to search for the tiniest speck of improvement and heap on the compliments. Kids like that and it leads to another tiny speck and another and another ...

Congratulations MK9750 on the progress you've made.

The time to set up a safe swim defense is before boys get in the water. If that is ignored and a boy is drowning it's too late for defense, it's rescue time. I don't think the Safe Swim Defense rules were written to apply to a rescue situation. It's what you do to prevent the need for a rescue.

I had success with this problem once and never had to say a word to the adult. A boy in the troop became frustrated and let loose a series 4-letter verbs and adjectives. This was within earshot of the adult that used inappropriate adjectives on occasion. I pulled the boy aside, in the presence of the adult, and together "we" spoke to the boy about his choice of words. The "clean" part of the Scout Law, and how those kinds of words are used by people that were limited in their vocabulary and had difficulty communicating and expressing themselves. And that kind of talk is offensive to many people and is not "kind" and "courteous" as well. And that as a respected boy in the troop, he had an obligation to set a good example for others. The adult leader said nothing, but he cleaned up his mouth.

It is great for adults to exercise good Scouting skills and practices. Its another thing to start acting as if they are Boy Scouts. The problem stated that turned the direction of this thread was that the adults in the troop were playing Boy Scout. That is not the role of an adult leader. Facilitating this adult game by organizing them into a patrol lends legitimacy to the practice.

Student posted that there are adults associated with the troop that want to be Scouts themselves. They want to participate in Scout skills, play Scout games, and do their sons service projects. The question What does the Scoutmaster Handbook and the Troop Committee Guidebook advise may be rhetorical, but if Student looks in those books for guidance, he will not find adult patrol as an answer to his problem. Im a firm believer that units that follow the concepts found in the books dont have these kinds of problems. If the adult patrol idea is truly a good one, it would be discussed in the adult leader books and in the adult leader trainings. Rather than invent a new idea, why not first read the books, take the trainings, and work those ideas first, the ideas that are already proven to be successful? Adults that want to participate in Scouting should be welcomed. To be effective and to be of the most benefit to the troop, their enthusiasm and talents need to be channeled to where they can be most effectively used. Start by registering them as adult leaders. Appoint them specific assistant Scoutmaster or committee positions with defined responsibilities. Get them a copy of the Scoutmaster Handbook or Troop Committee Guidebook and get them trained. An adult patrol with patrol patches, yell, duty rosters, and service projects just doesnt fit in with the roles adults need to assume. Modeling desired behaviors doesnt require an adult patrol. If you want to teach boys how to wash dishes, go to the patrol campsite and explain how it is done. Teach them. Washing dishes on the other side of camp as an adult patrol, while a Scout patrol struggles does not teach them how to wash dishes.

"We should be here for the boys." "What part of achieving the goal and keeping the group together requires following all the rules and guidelines?" We are here to use the methods of Scouting to achieve the aims of Scouting to fulfill the mission of Scouting. That's the "part" that requires following the "rules" and "guidelines" or whatever label you want to use. You cannot do Scouting if you don't follow the Scouting ways.

If a $10 membership fee is paid by a contribution, what is fraudulent, unless the Scout Executive pocketed the money? Did BSA not get the donation and use it to further Scouting? If the membership number is 500,000 or 400,000 how does this affect the tax exempt status of the organization?

What does the Scoutmaster Handbook and the Troop Committee Guidebook advise about how to run an adult patrol?

I must say that there seem to be a lot of disappointment and upset over these misstatements of membership numbers. This doesn't strike me as a very important issue. If false reporting is illegal, why? If the FBI is conducting an investigation, why? Has the public been harmed such that our government must intervene? My church reports the attendance of services in the church bulletin. Some weeks it is up, others down. Of course the minister wants attendance to be up, and up, and up. Were it to be discovered that he intentionally reported higher attendance than in fact, I'd be disappointed. His integrity would be questioned. But would that be illegal? Would the FBI want to know?

What is the purpose of this thread?

http://www.scoutstuff.org/cgi/catalog Scroll down about 1 page.

"The staff should have ensured 2-deep." I've been to several summer camps where there is only one adult for the merit badge session being counseled. 2-deep leadership is required for trips and outings. Are there different requirements for a BSA camp?

Troop Guides get direction from the assistant Scoutmaster and the SPL. The ASPL works with the other positions, but not the Troop Guides.

"Of course, the bigger issue is WHAT was the camp staff thinking when they allowed just ONE counselor to offer this at night?????" Why would more than one counselor be needed?

There is a BSA publication specifically about caving and how to do it as a safe troop activity. The name and # escapes me for the moment.

It isn't funny at all. It's stupid.

"It can be tricky sometimes telling which is which but most are pretty clear as to which category they fall in." I see no purpose in categorizing unless one's intent is to ignore those in a particular category.

I'm not sure there is any value in getting into an 8 page discussion (argument) about the definitions of words like "rules", "guidelines", "laws", and "regulations". What's the point? Guidelines are simply rules one doesn't want to follow.

The most difficult concept to instill in our chartered organization, both the board and the membership, has been that we (pack and troop) are THEIR program for youth. We are not an outside group that comes in and uses their facilities. We don't want them to be a part of OUR team. We don't want them to contribute to US. We want to be a part of THEIR team. The adult Scout leaders are paid-up members of the CO, we attend the meetings, and we get on the meeting agenda to give a 2 minute report of what THEIR pack and troop are doing.

What Paul said. The position descriptions and philosophy may also be found in the Scoutmaster's Junior Leader Training Kit.

It is interesting to see how some units solve their problems. 10 or 15 out of 65 attend events. A dismal showing and the SPL and ASPL are part of the no-shows. A campout or other event needs the SPL to be there and it is a problem if he is absent. Does adding another ASPL fix that? Not really, because the SPL is still absent. Maybe a better solution is to get him to attend, or elect one that will attend. It's not clear what problem is being solved in the other troop by appointing boys to multiple positions. Maybe the several ASPLs have no particular duties? If that is the case perhaps one ASPL with no other duties would work better.

The purpose of the award program is to encourage packs to have a qualtiy year-round program, including the summer months. An event in each of the months of June, July, and August meets the award requirement. Extra events before or after summer, with the summer off doesn't seem to square with having a year-round program. Three events in June, with July and August off doesn't seem right either. If a boy goes off on vacation with his family and does not participate one month, then he has not participated. Why would a pack give themselves the award if they did not hold activities in June, July, and August? Why should a participation pin be presented to a boy that did not participate?