FScouter

"... if they serve any real-live children at all, it is far better than taking the resources and serving none. That's a no-brainer." It is ludicrous to think that contributions to BSA serve no youth. What do you think BSA does with contributions if they don't serve youth?

We dont use equipment lists much, and dont have a forbidden list. The Boy Scout Handbook already has lots of lists. We talk about cotton, wool, polypropylene, nylon, and the problems with cotton. Once the pitfalls of cotton are learned, theres no point in putting it on a forbidden list. If a boy wears it anyway, so be it. Its up to the boy, his PL, and the SPL to decide whether or not they will ignore what has been taught. They know up front what may happen from wearing cotton socks. They know the whole patrol may need to stop every 20 minutes for the cotton boy to tend his feet. That doesnt mean though were going to start down the trail on a 50 miler with ill-equipped boys. We would discuss the whys and wherefores of different choices until they make choices that wont jeopardize health and safety . The mission of Boy Scouts, (including this leader) is to prepare boys to make good choices in their lives. If they make a poor choice, that is their prerogative . I will not forbid a boy from making a poor choice. If the mission was to have a perfect outing, wed have adults plan everything, and write lots of do and do not lists. In my mind, the purpose of an outing is to give boys opportunities to make choices. Where to go, what to eat, what to do, how to do it. Our job is to teach them and prepare them to make good choices. Teach them to choose wool instead of cotton, if you will. We do a roses & thorns session during or after every event. Thats when Matts blisters get discussed and how they affected him and the rest of the troop. BSA calls this reflection. There is a good discussion about it in the Scoutmaster Handbook and the Scoutmasters Junior Leader Training Kit. Its not an adult thing at all, though the Scoutmaster is there to guide the discussion as needed. Its a very important part of fulfilling the mission.

If you're carrying 1/3 of body weight in a pack, take out the cast iron dutch oven and the kitchen sink.

johndaigler said the same thing. I don't condone what happened at all. I do have an issue with the spin some people put on this. Which other programs in that city do a better job helping kids? Where would United Way otherwise have given the money that would have had a better benefit to kids? BSA got a contribution. Unless there is an accusation that the SE funneled the contribution into his personal bank account, BSA got the money and is using it to help kids.

Beavah, welcome to the forums! Sounds like you're closer to the "BSA model" and not so loosey-goosey as you think. Clearly, you have some misconceptions about Scouting methods. " 'In the troop I transferred from, we had to be in a new scout patrol and just work on first class. It was really bad... 12 guys who didn't know what they were doing all together, with only this Troop Guide to help.' So in that way we don't follow the BSA model ..." 12 boys in a patrol is not the BSA model. 6-8 is. Only a TG is not the BSA model. Need an assistant Scoutmaster assigned to the new Scout patrol in addition to a TG. Only work on first class? That's not the model either, though working on rank requirements (not exclusively) is. "We don't follow the BSA NCS summer camp example of lecturing kids on rules and regulations for hours at a time." Lecturing is not the BSA model either. "...you'll never see us camping in dress beige." Camping in the field uniform is not the BSA model. "We don't allow FOS at Courts of Honor, which are for the kids." FOS at a COH is not the BSA model either. "We don't do chuck-box and trailer car camping." Not the BSA model either. "Instead, the kids plan and run our meetings by patrol." Meetings planned by the PLC IS the BSA model. "If we were faced with a choice between being shoehorned into the BSA model and giving up our charter, we would give up our charter." Why would you think you would ever be faced with a choice like that? You're already pretty much doing the "BSA model".

"...this is about how Scouting Professionals stole money from underprivileged kids." "...stealing from the kids you're dedicated to serve,is reprehensible." Agreed. But nobody stole anything from kids. The council manipulated numbers on a report to get a bigger contribution from United Way. How is that stealing from underprivileged kids? Maybe United Way should stop making contributions based on numbers in a report.

Ask if you can attend their next executive board meeting. Give a quick report on the doings of the troop, the last campout, court of honor, etc. Anything to develop the relationship is good.

The district commissioner is NOT the Scout Executive. Get out the telephone book and look up BSA. Call the council office and ask to speak to the Scout Executive about a child abuse incident on a troop campout. You WILL get through to the Scout Executive. You do not need to be a Scout leader to make this call.

It is NOT your responsibility to investigate. It IS your responsibility to report. Straight from Youth Protection training.

Which of your posts (including mine) are kind?

"We have tried to get the CO involved many times." Ed - don't try to get the CO involved in the troop. YOU, get involved in the CO. Try it?

jkhny - "And as far as "who is hurt" by faking numbers??? If you have to ask that you have no place in Scouting. " Well, maybe I don't have a place in Scouting, but tell me again, in 3 sentences or less who is hurt? No newspaper reprints please. johndaigler - "BSA ATL made sure that other programs built to help kids in that city received less funding." Which other programs in that city do a better job helping kids?

So, Ed, why are you content to leave your CO in the dark? Why not develop the relationship? Only good can come from it.

An amendment to our constitution is an admission that we made a mistake when it was originally written. Did our founders really make a boo-boo about how we run our country? What does "flag desecration" have to do with running our country?

We had a boy in our troop once. It was impossible to teach him anything. For the 6 mile day hike he showed up with tennis shoes, untied, with cotton socks. "Matt, tie your shoes, you'll get blisters." "I never get blisters." Mile 2, we're taking a water break. Matt is sitting on a rock with his shoe off, examining his heel. "Matt, your foot OK? Let me get you some Moleskin for that red spot, looks like a blister in the works." "No, it's fine, I just had an itch." "OK, tie your shoes and let's go." "That makes my foot hurt." "It will hurt less if we put on the Moleskin and you tie your shoes." The other boys crowd around and make suggestions. Matt says "It feels fine." Mile 3, we stop unexpectedly (again) because Matt has a "rock in his shoe". The other foot is now developing a blister. The other boys are a little perturbed because we stopped again for Matt. More suggestions. "OK, I'm ready!" End of hike, Matt takes off his shoes and has two blisters (popped) the size of a dime. All crowd around and look. 12 boys learn a lesson, maybe Matt does too. We could have put cotton socks and tennis shoes on the "forbidden list". There would have been no problem. And nothing learned. Our mission is not to conduct the perfect day hike. It is to teach boys to make good choices.

I trust the stoning is complete by now.

"You should praise Beav for the many hours he gave to find a willing CO and start the troop because without him, it would not have happened." I must seriously question the value in starting a new unit solely for the purpose of solving a problem in an existing unit. A better use of resources would have been to use those hours, and the DEs hours to develop the CO and leadership of the troop he left, and solve those problems. Instead, we still have the first troop with poor leadership and an inactive CO, and now a new unit with growing pains and an inactive CO. Im not convinced this is better for the long term success of Scouting.

"Recruiting CO's is a long slow slog..." I often wonder which is easier: recruit a new chartered org and start a new unit, or work with the existing chartered org to select quality leaders and replace the bad leaders. It seems that all too often the solution to bad leadership is to abandon the unit and start a new one. There must be an easier way to rid a unit of bad leadership.

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Gee, I had no idea our country had a problem with flag-burning. What are we trying to fix with this law? If there are those that don't like our country such that they feel compelled to protest in this manner, will a law against it fix the problems that lead to protest? If burning a flag makes a political statement of protest, I'd expect a surge of burnings after a law is passed.

The parts I don't like are useless.

Take on a task. Be successful with it. Others will take notice and say "Hey, maybe that guy knows more than we thought!" Then you say "Oh, it's right out of the Scoutmaster Handbook."

What's secret?