FScouter

Welcome to the forums! Sounds like you're working hard to help provide a good program for the boys. Troops are not expected to provide their own merit badge counselors. Your local district should have a list of approved merit badge counselors. It is the responsibility of the district advancement committee chairman to make sure all counselors are well-qualified and registered, which would include the counselor that is working with the 3 boys in your troop. The chairman would appreciate comments from boys and troops about their experiences with counselors. It does seem strange that a registered and approved MB counselor would have questions about his MB. The advancement committee chair would be the one for him to ask. Maybe this particular individual has not be approved as a Camping MB counselor? Only persons approved by the district advancement chair (or the MB dean he has appointed) can serve as a counselor and approve a boy's completion of MB requirements.

The power to fix the problems in your council lies with the volunteers. It is the volunteers that elect the Executive board. It is the Executive board that hires the SE. If the wrong people, paid or otherwise, are in these positions, it is the volunteers that put them there. To effect change, your focus should be on the chartered organizations in the council. The chartered org representatives, one from each CO, are the volunteers that hold the power of change. Tell us about your efforts to win support of the CO's. You've been complaining about your council in this forum for over a year now. What is it you hope the members of these forums can do do help you?

Ed, after careful consideration and deliberation, I have decided that we need someone on our committee that has a more focused view of what our goals are. I can see now that I made a mistake in appointing you to this position. Therefore I must now take action and replace you in this assignment. Ed, thank you so much for your contributions, and all you have done for Scouting.

There is no right to "free speech" in a private organization. You can be replaced in a heartbeat by the individual or group that appointed you to your position. I'd like to think that removal rarely occurs because the parties involved ought to be able to resolve their differences and work together for betterment of Scouting.

Ed, you ought to know by now that when you get in an argument with Bob, you always end up with the short end of the stick. You might refer to publication #34512 (available at your Scout Shop) which spells out for you in black and white, "chapter and verse" how you too may join Jkhnys club and be removed. Examples of volunteers that may be removed, quoting: - "a poor team player who is not in keeping with the organizations image. This person prevents others from being effective and may also drive them out of Scouting. This volunteer may hate his or her Scouting responsibility and lets others know it." - "person who can't get along with others any may even greatly offend some" - "doesn't perform assigned tasks and can't seem to meet the objectives of his or her Scouting responsibilities." Another quote: "Always keep two things in mind: (1) Do what's best for youth, and (2) The BSA has a right to choose its leaders." Do you want to be a test case?

"Most COR's do not participate and vote so this can happen." The ultimate power lies with the chartered org reps. The nominating committee develops the slate. If they abdicate that responsibility to the DE or SE, then your district chairman has appointed the wrong people to the nominating committee. If your district/council elected the wrong district chairman, that is solely the fault of the voting membership. If things are truly as bad as you say they are, the chartered organizations will direct their COR's to vote out the district chairman and any members at large that are not doing their jobs. If they're content to let things go as they are, that calls into question your dire descriptions of the situation.

The chartered organization, through the COR and it's troop committee selects and recruits the Scoutmaster. The CO approves or disapproves the selection. If the Scoutmaster is not meeting the needs of the chartered organization, as is the case Scouter9933 related here, they can replace him. The committee is not autonomous to the CO. The unit and its committee are owned by the CO. BSA owns and provides the program the CO uses. Through it's troop committee, selection of adult leaders is one of the primary responsibilities of the CO. The Troop Committee Guidebook #34505 discusses this in detail.

Expaning a bit on what Bob related. Chartered organization reps are automatically members of the district committee. All other members are members at large and are elected annually at the district annual meeting. A nominating committee is selected by district chairman, and approved by council president. They meet with the DE as adviser to form slate of nominees for district chairman, vice district chairmen (if any), and members at large. They also select a nominee for district commissioner. (The district commissioner nominee is approved by the council executive board, not elected.) After the election, the incoming district chairman appoints the chairmen of the operating committees (membership, finance, program). Those chairmen appoint chairmen of various functions (FOS, Camp Promotion, Activities & Civic Service, Training, and Advancement & Recognition, etc.) All of these appointees come from the pool of members at large that were elected. If these chairmen dont understand their responsibilities or fail to act, the DE may have to step in and make the appointments. The LDS bishop may "call" someone to be a nominee for member at large, with the understanding that he will fill a specific position. In our district, the election is a formality. All the members and committee chairman have informally been determined in advance and the incoming district chairman simply waves his hand and says youre all duly elected and appointed. If we have no district chairman that year, the DE waves his hand. I dont like this approach because it starts to look like the DE is king of the district and no one get on the committee without being appointed by him. The power is with the CORs and volunteers, but if they dont exercise it, the DE will. Refer to The District #33070C and District Nominating Committee Worksheet #33157D available at the Scout Shop or through the catalog.

Ed, you're entitled to your opinion. Let it go.

Chapter 11 of the Scoutmaster Handbook has a lot of good discussion that will help to head off behavior problems. The boys, through the PLC, can help come up with a code of conduct. When someone crosses the line, the boys themselves can help bring that person back. They must all agree that certain behaviors are not appropriate. I don't think a policy written by the adult committee will help. The Scout Law pretty much says it all. Hold them to it.

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Ed, how long should a SM work in training a boy leader before he concludes it is hopeless and that the only solution is to remove the boy from his position? How long?

I can't say anything about when changes took place, or why. There is some info on the national web site about current trademarks and how they may be used. http://www.scouting.org/identity/index.html Click on the last two items in the table of contents.

I'd say that the assistant PL should be at the PLC meeting if the PL will not. But having the APL there for every meeting would seem to give permission for the PL to skip troop meetings. I'd rather see the PL contact the APL and brief him as needed if he (PL) will miss a troop meeting. Another concern is that it is much easier to conduct a small PLC meeting. Extra bodies at the table makes for unnecesary discussion and confusion.

Some boys have more of a natural ability than others. Those that are having trouble need more coaching and support from the SM. Can it really be so bad that the only solution is to give up and yank him from his position before his term is up?

If a patrol plans an activity that involves chopping wood, they will set up an axe yard. The patrol leader will be in charge. If a patrol has planned to go fishing and the SPL orders them to set up an axe yard instead, the SPL has taken control and is now in charge. The PL is not the puppet of the SPL or anyone else. A puppet is not in charge. Why would an SPL order a patrol to set up an axe yard if the patrols plan is fishing?

If the SPL tells a patrol to set up an axe yard, that doesn't sound like the PL is in charge. If the SPL tells the PL to set up an axe yard, and the PL complies, he is just doing the bidding of the SPL. That's not being in charge either. Like Bob said, if the SPL hands out an order to the PL, the PL is nothing more than a communication device. By the way, if the patrol wants to set up an axe yard, why would the SPL have to order that it be done?

"There is lots of good input on the table but no clear answers." I don't see accidents as an "LDS" problem at all. It's an accident problem. Several people here have pointed out the reasons and answers: lack of leadership, lack of training, basic failure of the leadership to conduct outdoor activities in a safe manner. The answer is to select good leaders, and train them to follow safe practices.

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"The problem I have is when I hear such statements as "no coffee for youth" and hear that it "came from National" - what are my resources to verify the authenticity?" It's impossible to verify rules that don't exist. My practice is to say something like "Oh, that's really interesting. Could you get me a copy of that memo so I could pass the information on to others back home?" If a boys asks, you can simply tell him that at this camp, the coffee pot is provided for the use of adults only.

"Our committee automatically re-registers all Life Scouts to allow a back-door for any fellow who decides he really wants to finish that Eagle after all." Sounds like fraud. The FBI may want to know about this.

I don't think a troop has a "right" to stay up late, play radios and disturb a neighboring campsite. A Scout is courteous. Putting a ban on radios does not make a Scout courteous.

I'd say the Patrol Leader is the mouthpiece for the patrol members.

Those scenarios are far different than the accusations that money was stolen from kids, and that no kids were served.