fred8033

IMHO ... It's not at all that national is clueless or making decisions in a vacuum. This is 100% about legal liability for a great youth program run loosely by outside volunteers and BSA being held liable for societal ills. This is why "I think" BSA should NOT be a membership organization. It should be a certifying body. BSA should certify that the outside youth in an outside organization (Troop ###) completed rank requirements. They should not be certifying safety or membership or liable for each and every camp out. BSA will never wield enough control to be able to legally protect themselves and their members.

I'm glad I'm transitioned now. At one point, we had four actively registered scouts in my family and two registered adults. That would have been $440 in national fees. Probably another $320 in council fees at least. $760 for just registration and before Boy's Life magazine, camping, uniforms, activities, miscellaneous AND fundraising to keep the unit viable. Wow! In hind sight, I am sure there were many years that scouting cost was at least $5000 a year and some that must have been near twice that. Jamboree. High adventures. Four summer camps. ... and the miscellaneous cost for all those sleeping bags, tents and garage full of gear. The real issue is moving these costs up front. It makes it a decision factor. I'm sure baseball and other activities would have been similar in cost for four active kids. BUT, the cost is now very visible. Perhaps BSA should move more and more toward a certification model. Here is the intellectual property and the requirements. Send proof that you completed the requirements. Then, BSA publishes the certificate confirming your achievement. No taking responsibility for adult leaders. Heck, having all MBCs as pre-registered BSA members defeats the concept of a MBC.

I'm sure your son faced enough judgements over those two years between suspension and the Eagle application. If after the suspension, the troop kept the scout registered, then the suspension should not be used against him. Key point is keeping the scout registered and participating is tacit agreement that the scout could earn Eagle if he stays active and working the requirements. It's too late at the EBOR to use the suspension against the scout. ... It might be very different if the incident was a month before the EBOR.

Ongoing i Ongoing improvement is good. Practice is good. Finding a reason to perfect and grow skills is good. The problem is referring to it as a test. In the SMC, it's not. It's part of the conversation and not a pass or fail condition.

I wish I could provide more detail. Four months seems long, but I'm not sure. QUESTION - Did you appeal to national via your council? Or did you directly appeal to national? I'm curious about procedures. I ask as I'm wondering if and when national received the appeal. Was there a middle man? Did it really get there?

Wow !!! I wanted to comment that books and uniforms are profit centers that are not subsidized by national fees. So, I was curious. What is the price of a new handbooks from scout shop? $23.99 for Wolf, Bear, Webelos, etc. All ring bound. No hard bound. $24.99 for troop handbooks. Our pack used to buy cubs their books. We stopped when they were around $12 or $15. Most cubs went without. At $24.99 and the online scoutbook, I'd be tempted to go without for the troop scout level paper copy too. I'd be tempted to create a nice thin, small troop level pamphlet where scouts could keep their advancement signatures. What is really disgusting to me is the $20 for the online scout handbook. Online versions of this stuff should be free! In fact, let a well structured group of volunteers manage all the scout literature. If it works for Linux, it can definitely work for scout literature. Then, partner with Kinkos or FedEx to print copies for individuals that really want paper.

Saw this in our council too. Every non-profit is fundraising so much and scouting is not the darling child anymore. Maybe 20 years from now, scouting will find it's roots and do better again. Until then, council fees are in vogue. IMHO, the real issue is the market does not support big council staffs anymore. Like camera film development and fax machine sales, the market has shifted. Time for the councils to re-think their business models. National too. The real question is does the individual scout get value from the $75 national and $100+ council fees which their own units are staffed by volunteers and the camp fees are separate. For example, maybe scouting could partner with other organizations on the annual background checks, incident reporting and youth protection. I've had multiple years where I had three or four or five background checks run. I always think about the wasted cost. I'm sure there are many, many ways to restructure the administration.

I agree. Also, it would help address borderline units where the unit has a low number of boys or a low number of girls. Critical mass of numbers is so so important in scouting to make it a fun program.

Minimizing council administrative cost per scout is the biggest argument for merging councils. If scout exec is $46 per scout, then double or triple that for all the council staff combined. So, it would be $100 or more per scout for council administrative staff. Especially recognizing that camp staffing should be from a different bucket. Scout shop is a different bucket.

We need to transition to a troop is a troop. Troops can choose to be boys only, girls only OR boys & girls. IMHO, we're in 2023. If YPT is address, this should not be an issue.

I had an interesting experience yesterday. I have a part-time weekend job. One of my co-worker is a 71 years old retired cop. Great guy. ... I somehow referenced scouting and he asked "oh, you were in scouting?" I briefly explained. I asked if he was in scouting. His comment was ... without using "only" ... Yes. He made it to Life Scout, but that was back when scouting was fun. ... I really found that interesting. Unprompted, his first comment was about that scouting was not fun anymore.

Interesting how this becomes a point of discussion. My point is someone who works with scouts, is not registered; and claims they are YPT trained is missing a fundamental key element of YPT; the registration and background check. It's an oxymoron and a sign the system has failed. Perhaps the registration never went thru. Perhaps a snafu. Fundamentally, someone didn't learn or worse "accept" a key point of YPT.

Registration quirks aside, my point is claiming someone is YPT trained but not registered is a contradiction.

I was thinking ... YPT, but NOT registered ... it's an oxymoron. An automatic statement that the YPT points did not sink in. There is no YPT meat without the person being registered. It's like attending law school, but never passing the bar.

You are dead on correct. Only a slight correction. Tigers are also bad for numbers. . Not just about burn-out. The first-look to impress parents/scouts is impressive as the program is so drastically watered down for Lions and Tigers. Many parents after Lions and Tigers are asking why scouts?

Fair enough. I've been out of the scout office too long. I swear they were, but maybe it's only the scout shop employees. I thought registrars were too. Goes to show my knowledge is fading. Perhaps time to ride into the scouting sunset.

Registrars are national employees. A small council might need one or two. A larger council can function smoother with 2 or three. I believe there are a few other similar national roles. Economies of scale is not just national cost. It's variety and quality. Small councils can't offer the number of camps or training or opportunities. Larger councils can benefit by targeting objectives that small councils can't staff correctly. Many, many reasons. It's not 100% about cost. By improving quality, then scout retention and national membership goes up. That helps the bottom line.

Merging councils is long overdue to reduce cost and benefit from economies of scale. If anything, bankruptcy delayed some mergers and bankruptcy could help national by driving more mergers.

Often circumvented by having a member of council shooting sports committee (who has right certifications) oversee the event. Thus, it becomes a council event that only one unit attends.

Those insurance companies have a right to not settle and go to trial ... if they choose. From what I understand, the trust would have the right to fund and represent all those covered by the trust. Effectively, trust money could be used to advance the victim's claims.

Really glad to see BSA and the councils able to move on.

That was a great SOAR feature. Worked well. Could send email to the SOAR troop URL and it re-routed as needed.

Congratulations ! Make it fun ! Make it fun for yourself too! Don't do everything yourself. Don't sweat if it doesn't become the ideal program. Do things to keep the scouts busy and getting new experiences. Use the committee to share the work. Expect nothing. Celebrate volunteers that help.

I am sorry to hear that. I've been there too. We become heavily invested in our kids and in volunteer programs that have such good purposes. Then, when the program doesn't happen smoothly or near our ideal, it really hurts. It saps energy. It saps happiness. It's okay to back off. It's okay to only focus on the more fun stuff. When it happened to me, I tried to always know the ideal that my brain said the program should happen, but I mainly focused on getting my scouts out and having adventures. By doing that, I had enjoyed scouting much more. AND, I think my scouts grew more too. I think scouting is hurt by the strong Norman Rockwell image and the detailed well reasoned program training materials. So many good volunteers become heavily committed to "this is how the program should work". ... My opinion has changed some recently. I agree with the program training materials, but IMHO ... just getting the scouts out and being active is much more important. Keep 'em safe, but keep 'em busy having adventures.

LOL. This is a hot topic for me. I am always looking for a good hat. Packs well. Shape recovers easily. Shades the ears. Good air flow. Can get soaked. Can be washed. I like a hat like this.