fred8033

Advisers ... There is a BSA concept of a unit commissioner, but then again you can't guarantee unit commissioners really know what they are talking about. IMHO, the best advice is to talk to as many scouters as possible. "The ideal" ...We often talk in "ideals" and much of our advice is such that "the ideal troop would ...". Units can absolutely still provide a great, meaningful program even if they aren't the Norman Rockwell troop. IMHO, are the scouts benefiting? Growing? Learning lessons? ... My first ideal is focus on program. Get the scouts out doing things and doing things they have never done before. Within that structure, you can then slowly introduce Norman Rockwell images until years down the road you are closer to the ideal troop. Example ... Our troop has done better and worse with patrol method. Often it's because SM changed and has the SM has a different emphasis. The current SM emphasizes getting the scouts out doing things. Less emphasis on patrols and PLC. It can be frustrating, but the scouts have an absolutely great program. Camping. Adventures. Canoeing. Going someplace new every month. Scouts setup their tents, cook and the adult are pretty relaxed. ... So the patrol method is less than it was under our previous SM. And, the PLC could improve. ... but those scouts have had an absolutely great scouting journey. Is it the perfect troop? Absolutely not. But those scouts have great memories and have definitely grown. I'd put their leadership and character against any troop. .... To improve patrol method and PLC, I suspect we'll need a new SM how has a vision on how to emphasize those again. BSA Methods ... BSA has eight methods ... (or did ... not sure current list ...) ... Patrol Method. Ideals. Outdoor Program. Advancement. Adult Association. Personal Growth. Leadership Development. Uniform. ... I think you can grade any troop by how well they do in each category. And, I'm sure every troop has weak areas. Don't get so caught up on patrol method that it overshadows the others. I view the methods as near equals where each can help improve a scout's experience. Some scouts over emphasize patrol method to the damage of other aspects. I probably over emphasize the personal growth and outdoor program. IMHO ... Use the "ideal troop" as an image to work toward, but absolutely enjoy the troop you have. ... Also recognize, often to create the perfect troop you need to start over with new scouts who don't know what to expect. That sacrifices the current scouts. IMHO, enjoy your troop and focus on getting the guys ... scouts ... out and having adventures. ... And don't forget to laugh and have fun.

I absolutely agree. A patrol that doesn't "hang" together ain't a patrol. A good patrol does things together. Sticks together as much as possible. Throw a football. Play magic cards on a picnic table. Go swimming. Compete at camp beach volleyball. ... Absolutely cook, tent and plan.

You are envisioning Lord of the Flies with zero guidance. No one said 100% stand back. A good troop program with a good scoutmaster provides subtle guidance toward developing strong patrols. I always thought one of the best ways to develop a strong patrol was overcoming obstacles such as wanting to eat. I remember a discussion from a long time ago about a troop that was merging or starting up. They had to recreate their patrols because of a major change. The question was how to organize the patrols. The best advice I heard was to count the total scouts. Divide by 8. Then, tell the scouts to divide themselves into that number of groups with each group having eight scouts ... plus or minus two scouts. That's the patrols. If they want to change patrols in the future, that's their choice.

I hugely agree. "Left to their own devices youth will naturally gravitate towards what we call the Patrol method." Patrol method is a natural inclination of the scouts ... and people. People tend to form groups that they associate in. That's a patrol. I also agree that the best thing to promote the patrol method is to get out of the hair of the scouts. Let scouts be scouts. Teach and guide, but let them be them.

Youth protection: I have never ever been comfortable with a 16 year old sharing a tent with an 11 year old. When my son joined the troop 15 years ago, the SM encouraged close-age tenting. SM used subtle hints to drive this. Almost always, it just occurs naturally. No extra work. No extra planning. No big discussions. It was just common sense and subtle guidance. ... Also, it was easier as we started with new-scout patrols and the patrol tented together. Then, those patrols tended to stay together. The exceptions tended to be near same age. Patrols: My experience leans more and more into letting the individual scouts figure out their patrols. Not the adults. Not the PLC. Then, let the patrols figure out the age thing ... with subtle adult guidance. ... Yes, we do start the scouts in a new-scout patrol. But it's more because they are all in the same situation. After, if they have a good experience, they stick together. But then again, if a scout wants to go to another patrol, we'd let them. IMHO, patrols design is less about same age/mixed age and more about associations. IMHO, the scouts should tent, camp, cook, game, swim, canoe, (... etc ...) by who they normally associate. That association is a patrol. So ... How are the troops with mixed age patrols handling campouts? ... We let the scouts figure it out on their own. If there is an obvious age difference, we will provide subtle guidance.

We keep all our troop members health forms in a quick access water-proof container. It's actually zero work for events and activities. I agree though. I can't imagine asking for paperwork like that for short-time volunteers.

Hmmm..... On the "don't need" side ... I would refer to Guide To Safe Scouting and specifically the sweet 16 of safety. https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/gss/sweet16/ It refers to "potentially strenuous activity" and does not mention health forms. I could see interpreting some Eagle projects as not needing. On the need side, Guide To Safe Scouting on page 84 talks about safety of service projects. Page 88 (still in the service project checklist) has check boxes for having the health forms. Hmmm.... Our troop has brought the health forms for troop members in the past, but we've never requested them of the average helper.

Semantics of a different question. ... To answer the that question, you can skirt the issue with making it a charter org fundraiser. ... The challenge is I've never seen a charter org run a fundraiser for a unit. Usually, it's the exact same people that run unit fundraisers. And the same rules are applied for scout accounts and sharing the results. ... Heck, most charter orgs are just not involved at all. ... It also introduces other issues ... if it's a charter org fundraiser and the charter org donates the money to the unit, I think that makes it much more difficult to credit any specific scout accounts any amount. The incentives to raise funds should be at the charter org level and specific scouts don't exist as separate entities in the charter org. My big fear in calling it a charter org fundraiser is it sets a bad lesson for our scouts. They see adults skirting policies and permission by effectively lying. But then again, my solution is probably not any better. Our units just don't ask. We play naive; not knowing we should ask.

They absolutely have the power to say no. The have little power to enforce. Just be considerate. Support your council by selling popcorn and friends of scouting. Beyond that, I wouldn't ask about other fundraisers. Focus on making your unit provide the best scouting program. The rest is noise.

Guilty. I like their feel and often wear them even outside scouting. I always buy extra every time they are on sale. I'm very critical of the uniform, but the socks are a weakness.

When our pack or troop sold wreaths, we didn't ask permission. When other units sold candy or flowers, I doubt they asked permission. With that said, you need to provide at least some details (even if generic) to put context to the question.

I have luckily never encountered such a predator ... at least to my knowledge. But I have repeatedly seen adults who are trusting of other because of character or reputation and willing to ignore the taught rules. We need to help others follow the rules and to remind them of the rules. We need to not be embarrassed to call people out on the rules.

I absolutely disagree that adults need to lead the course. IMHO, one of the best teaching methods is having scouts work with scouts. Our troop hasn't done ISLT recently. But when we did ... SM coached the SPL (who ran the course). The coaching was not hours and hours. It was more to familize with the materials ... 15 minutes at a time. Over a few weeks. The night before the course, the SPL and SM (and another adult) prep'ed the training and the materials. The training itself was a combination of 10 to 15 minute segments of BSA produced VHS tapes specifically for ISLT … with "now pause the tape" Games Exercises Reflections and discussion Scoutmaster comments / thoughts … really short comments and thoughts It was all run by the SPL for the scouts. One of my favorite parts was lunch. Paper bag lunches. One bag had bread. One had cheese. One had meat. Chips. The scout that really was happy was the scout who had all the deserts in their lunch bag. It was interesting to see if it was immediate or 30 seconds ot 60 seconds before they realized they had to share and work together to have a good lunch. … But the kid with the deserts always had a big smile on his face.

Looking back, I may not have been as sensitive to the project and the scout. It is just that Eagle projects are a mixed bag.

Agreed. Misbehavior should be dealt with by SM / CC outside of BOR. Such misbehavior may prevent the BOR from starting.

Scouts get flustered all the time. And, scout oath and law were requirements for a specific rank. It's troop program that keeps the skills up and not the advancement program. A good way for a troop to keep that skill current is to have the scouts say the oath and law before every meeting. Your example about camping nights seems slightly different. The scout said he didn't, but it's signed off. As such, the scout said he had not met the requirement. IMHO, you can ask the scout to recite oath and law at BOR, but you really can't suspend the BOR because he flobbed it.

That's different. A scout is answerable to having the requirements reviewed and tested. The signature in the book indicates it's been tested and judged worthy. It's not the BORs place to re-evaluate or retest or rejudge if a scout met the requirement.

Hmmm .... Good quote, but not a motto. A motto is something Trump could easily twitter.

Scouts do not fail BORs. BORs are suspended and reconvened. Only aging out stops a BOR after a missing requirement is found. Reasons to suspend a BOR ? Unsigned requirements. A scout had everything signed off except the service hours. It was never approved by anyone. And in this case, the scout was short hours. Truly exceptional circumstances. Being arrested. Bringing drugs to scouting events.

I wish I could edit more as I bet I could come up with many or refine my thoughts. Here are a few that I like. "Keep the outing in scouting" ... My interpretation --> Focus on doing. In doing, we create opportunities to teach and make a difference. "Teach at all times. Use words if necessary." ... My interpretation --> Our actions are our greatest teacher. Flip side, too many "teaching" words kills the scout spirit. ... Quote is often attributed to Francis of Assisi, but it may be a pairing down of their religious rules and not a real quote.

I like that Socrates quote. IMHO, that's a good match for how scoutmasters should work.

Just finished a week of summer camp. It was a non-issue. Yes there are some challenges due to the transition. But program and the experience of summer camp had no change.

I should qualify my answer. I think you could technically do it. There is no rule preventing. It's just not a good idea at all.

Wonderful CBS news story.

Looks like a typical summer camp tent setup. I can only imagine the mom was thinking the old rule with tarps under tents. A tarp that is exposed beyond the edge of the tent collects water and can draw water under the tent. IMHO, that does not fit this case. Side comment ... guy on the right got a better deal. Less gap for bugs. Cot solidly on platform. Opportunity for middle of the night laugh when his friend on the left falls out of the tent because the cot not solidly on the platform.