fred8033

Yeah. I was in a mood, but that is the common comparison to a logical fallacy.

Until they see the scout. Question is a little like "when did you stop beating your wife?". It's hard to answer because you shouldn't be doing that. The blue card should either be in the hands of the scout or the counselor. When done, the scout hands in the troop's portion for the troop to keep. The scout keeps his part. The counselor keeps his part.

I see sports and scouts with similar pros and cons. The big difference I see is that results in sports is much more visible. Confidence. Satisfaction of the parent watching their kid drive kick the ball, hit the ball, pass the ball, etc. Scouts is much more subtle. I often think it's hard for parents to see the benefits. But when I looked close at my kids after each camp out or event, I always saw a little more maturity or capability or pride. My cheap parent view is sports is about more immediate gratification. Scouts takes a longer time to see. Not all parents will wait that long.

I think this is one of the reasons. All my adult leader friends who brought a smile when they showed up have moved on. I still have many friends, but it is not like it was. And I must admit ... this last month, I've done a lot of yard work and home projects that I have put off for a decade. It's sort of nice working my ticket back into my home life.

I've been mulling when to step away and make room for the next volunteer. This will be my 20th year in scouting as a parent. 18th year as a volunteer leader. 500+ nights camping. ... I like sleeping outside on a nice cool night more than sleeping inside ... Wood badge was 11 years ago. Lots of district and council work. I've also done a lot of volunteering outside of scouting. I once thought scouting would be my life-long volunteer passion. But, it's lost it's luster for me in many ways. Maybe that's normal that as you get more involved and more responsible for the content, you also learn more of the inner details. Over this next year, I'll be looking to have someone else take up my district and unit roles. It's time for me to step back.

We had scouts skit by patrol. Parents in the back. Siblings tended to do their own things either with patrol or with parent. Sometimes we had the patrol flags and scouts sat by their patrol flag. Usually a semi-circle.

It has been a few years, but we used the online application for those who were not at the recruitment or join events in-person. Essentially, we'd get them signed up any way possible. BUT ... we preferred the paper. It allowed us to charge the full pack dues. Not just that portion that was paid to national or council. It was always uncomfortable having someone fill out the online national / council application, and then ask them for the pack membership fee later. We used that fee for program, awards, special events, advancements, food, cub books, annual t-shirts and misc cost. We averaged a cost of $30 to $50 per year per cub. We thought we were doing well. We did have a supplemental cost every year that was paid by fundraiser. That fundraiser amount let us go above and beyond. As for online apps, it was nice and smooth. Only issue was whether to charge full pack dues or waive the pack dues for the first year ... (actually first 12 months ... at that time, the online app covers rechartering through the first cycle.) We collected dues in September.

Very sad. BSA is tagged with the greater fault when BSA did more than most institutions to at the time.

You are right. It is fear. I fear someone reading our chat / discussion as direction and advice to go create a library of checklists. I'm okay to use them initially as a tool to teach out to plan a troop meeting or run a PLC or plan a campout meals. I fear another troop rules book. I fear permanently using a library of checklists. I just remember too many times and too many scout leaders that want to write more rules or add forms / checklists instead of providing subtle guidance in the background. I've seen many experienced adult and youth scouts work with new scouts and new leaders to learn their new role. IMHO, it's that interaction that we want. IMHO, person-to-person strongly over forms.

I think the scoutmaster found them effective. And, it promoted his controlling the troop even without his interacting all the time. it created a very procedures oriented troop. There was a flow-chart on how to request rank advancement. Who to get your advancement report from? Then to review it? Then to submit the reviewed signed off sheet to the advancement chair. With the signed off advancement review, the advancement chair would schedule a SMC. Then the scout brings back the slip from the SMC to the advancement chair so the advancement chair can schedule a BOR. Then .... I think it promoted hit-and-run mgmt. ASPL interrupting patrol meeting to see if they had their form done ... multiple times. It promoted proceess / procedure management. It did not teach leadership. Scouts did learn human dynamics as they chased forms.

I worked with a troop that had at least 35+ checklists. SPL pre-campout planning checklist. ASPL pre-campout checklists for visiting the patrols to make sure they were filling out their PL pre-campout checklist and submitting them back to the ASPL. SPL PLC running checklist. QM pre-campout checklist. QM inventory-checkout lists. I swear the troop had at least two and up to five/six checklists for each position in the troop. IMHO, the scouts earned a mini-MBA by being in the troop. One or two templates are useful ... such as for new patrols ... a meal-planning form. Or for new SPLs to use the existing BSA meeting planning form. I'm hesitant on forms because ... in my view ... Scouting is not about teaching how to run processes and procedures. Scouting is about the human interaction dynamics and how to work with each other. ... I twinge when I hear giving the scouts a checklist because it seems like we are pushing adult oriented ISO 9000 accounting procedures down to the scout. Not all checklists are bad ... just most.

I also prefer not pushing checklists on the scouts.

I absolutely agree. From what I see, patrols are meaningless to most of the "troop" meeting. Until a different structure would happen, I agree with your comment. Focus on what is important to patrols. From my perspective, it's always the camping. Food. Activities. Ideas. Future camp / activity planning. Maybe it's also planning to be the service patrol (flags, setup, etc) or the program patrol (adding games and content). IMHO, it needs to always include felllowship time.

I actually think that is a real suggestion. It mimics Cub Scouts, but if you minimize adults and the patrols keep meeting, then I could see it working and working well. I really think patrols are subverted by troop structures and habits.

Free range ... I tend to agree with the "free range" ideal of scouting. Though with today's legal system and risk adverse society, I doubt we could make it cleanly happen. But even then, I don't think it's so bad if we can get the adult leaders sitting in the background enjoying coffee and out of the scout's hair. It's not ideal, but it's achievable. No SPL or PLC ... I like the idea of having the patrol leaders at the top of the POR chain. It's so true that today's BSA POR chain views the PL as the entry level position. It shouldn't be. The whole scout experience and look and feel of the troop should be dependent on the patrol leaders. Sadly, it's really just a pass thru position these days. 300 feet ... I've heard that distance for years now. I just now realized that 300' is about the width of the summer camp troop camp site. There is no way to structurally separate the patrols by 300' when at summer camp. I know one of council's property has nice small pocket camp sites cut out of the trees. But if you measure distance, they are probably 100' center to the center of the next camp site. Is it even structurally possible given today's camps ?

Cool ! About time too. This should be standard practice for all positions.

IMHO, this is the best ECOH. I've seen so so many poorly attended ECOHs that I like a ECOH that is an extension to a normal relaxed fun COH. Also ... my personal preference is ... every COH should be a pot luck. Food builds fellowship.

This happened to our family too with the 2010 National Jamboree. All the really cool keepsakes were sold out before the event and before we ever heard about an on-line store. It really upset me. It felt like the "in-crowd" knew how things worked and us first-time families were hosed by those waiting to gobble up more than their fair share. It set a bad tone before the event even started.

This came up periodically with my dad as he'd retell stories from his being a kid in the 1930s/40s. I had to research it. One reason is old pool filters would clog with all the lint. That was solved with the current cloth used with swim suits. Another reason is that many of the schools and organizations were all either all men or all women. Some co-ed schools split swimming schedules. It's still at the YMCA now that nude showers are expected. Usually, I use the private changing areas now to avoid the many scouts that are in the local YMCA. I doubt BSA is trying to clean history. I just don't think the current generation is comfortable with what was common place years ago. Why raise flags and distract from the story they are trying to tell. IMHO ... in many ways, the current generation is more prudish than previous generations.

What !!! When did BSA ditch the aluminum trail cook pots/pans set? Wow ... I never noticed. It's like losing a long lost relative that you never really liked that much but that you were sure would live on forever. We use plastic totes. Each patrol has one assigned (or did). Each kit has a hard plastic covered packing instruction sheet. That sheet has lasted 10+ years now. Very rigid ... as long as no one uses it as a cutting board. ... We are down now to six cook kits and one bin of extra supplies. We had two more bins of spare parts but we recently "purged" junk from the trailer to clean it up. Each kit has BSA's old aluminum stack-able set of pots with two fry pans. A rectangle non-stick fry pan. A cutting board. Three wash basins. Strainer. Set of utensils. Measuring cup. Two gallon pitcher. (or gallon ... I always look up the size). My favorite part of our cook kits is any scout can carry it and I can carry it with one hand.

I like seeing "our scouts in the XXX patrol decided". IMHO, this is the key to success. The scouts in the patrol decided.

Don't be ashamed. Be proud. Each scout has his own journey. Own yours. ... From what I've read above, I'd be proud to have a scout like you in my troop and I'd be glad to support you in your advancement. If you want Eagle, go for it. ... BUT ... don't stress over Eagle. It's just a rank. The journey is much more important. Building friendships and memories. Having adventures. Learning new things. Also, you have time. My recommendation ... Talk with your scoutmaster or another adult. Get a scout leader on your side who will support your journey. Let them know you need help and that you want to advance.

One big challenge you may face is getting agreement on what bullying is. Too often resolving situations like these is hard because of differing perspectives and opinions. I'd work to build consensus and understanding. If you can't do that, all the rules and procedures won't help.

Glad to hear your family and fellow scouts made it through the storm. The pictures are very scary. The camp staff should receive kudos for keeping everyone safe.

Looks like one of the crafts our scoutcraft camp staff built over the years. Looks both fun and problematic.