fred8033

I used the cub scout advancement poster-boards multiple times. It worked well ... or as well as the den-leader worked. For troops, advancement is personal. Individual. I would not encourage sharing detailed progress. Advancement is not competitive. ... Leave the detailed progress to the scout and his scout book. ... BUT ... our troop does have an advancement board. During Courts of Honor, scouts move their own name to the next rank as part of receiving their recognition. This is NOT our board, but we have something very similar. Ours was a family wood working project and is more portable, but also uses the large patches sold in the scout store. Our troop name, city and numbers were hand-cut by a scout using a jig saw. ( ... ummmm ... Wood was cut by hand with a jig saw ... not the scout's hand cut by the jig saw....) ... Our board also keeps a name tag on for all our recent Eagle alums. Scouts really liked moving their names. Adults leaders really took pride in all the scouts and where they were on their journeys.

Great phrasing. Expect a higher bar, but don't turn the bar into a wall.

I agree that you should not "flex" on the troop committee. This is not a fight worth fighting ... if the troop is running well and your son will be able to advance. I'm writing as it's worth knowing the intent. This is where I have the issue. Who contacts the CC for review? Your scout. When does he contact the CC? As soon as your scout thinks he's ready to contact the CC. In fact, your scout should talk with the CC early and let the CC know the proposal is coming. ... To grease the wheels for smoother approval. I really don't like the "slow to respond". In that case, the troop should have a different Eagle Coordinator or let an adult that can respond find a time slot that works with the Eagle Coordinator. The number one thing an Eagle coordinator needs to do is be available to the scouts in the troop. I really don't like the "this month" as it puts major delays into the paperwork and it's just not considerate of the scout. We are trying to encourage the scouts to give service and be leaders. We are not teaching them beaurocracy. "Eagle coordiantor says it's ready" ... BSA GTA 9.0.2.7 does say "Every attempt should be made to complete the approval process in one meeting." ... This is repeated throughout BSA advancement news. I'd strongly argue that if the troop has an Eagle coordinator reviewing proposals and giving the scout feedback, then that's the first review meeting. Most scouts should leave that meeting with a committee signature. There should be no CC waiting to schedule the review until the Eagle coordinator says it's ready. I'd also argue it adds another invisiible signature (aka a multi-phase committee approval process. It's exactly what is not intended. IMHO, if you have an Eagle Coordinator, give him the power to approve the projects. Or let scouts directly ask the CC (or advancement chair) for ten minutes at the next committee meeting to present his proposal. Or let the Eagle coordinator directly schedule the troop committee reviews.

Yes and no. The troop committee does have great latitude to decide how. The scout can provide the Eagle Project workbook proposal section to the committee and meet with the committee ... if that's the troop's choice. But the troop can't require additional presentation materials or powerpoint slides. The real challenge is "intent". I often read BSA's advancement news published by the BSA national advancement committee for clarification. https://www.scouting.org/programs/scouts-bsa/advancement-and-awards/advancement/ A consistent narrative exists in BSA's explanations / clarifications in articles such as "jumping the gun" and "Eagle Project Proosal Approval: Keep it Simple, Make it Fast". For example, the jumping the gun article empahsizes it's the project that is required. The signatures and paperwork are only supportive materials that enable the project, but signatures and paperwork are not what is required. It's the project that is required. (Nov-Dec 2017) ... https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/advancement_news/2017_Nov-Dec.pdf The keep it simple, make it fast points out that the approval should be done in one sitting ... if possible. If there is truely content that is important that the scout has missed, then let the scout write it in during the meeting. (Aug-Sep 2013) says "Therefore, reviewers at all levels should strive to approve proposals in one meeting if at all possible. If there is something truly important the Scout has considered but failed to write down, let him add the information right then and there. Give him a couple of minutes to handwrite the necessary information onto the proposal form, and then give him the approval. This way the Scout can get on with more detailed planning, and then execute his project. In the event there is a valid reason the proposal cannot be approved in one meeting, and it is necessary for the Scout to go back and put more effort into it, then the reviewer should provide a clear explanation, preferably in writing, of what needs to be done to gain approval." Also, BSA GTA 9.0.2.7 does explicitly say ... "It is important to be as considerate of an Eagle Scout candidate’s time as we expect him or her to be of ours. The Scout is probably just as busy. Every attempt should be made to complete the approval process in one meeting." ... BSA also suggests examples of the troop committee assigning approvals to the advancement chair. The very thing that BSA is trying to avoid is having project paperwork be a major delay or a factor that puts the scout's project at risk or the scout's advancement at risk. So, yes troop committees do have flexibility to require the scout to present to the "committee". It's just not the intent of the process. It can definitely have positives, but it also risks negatives. I'd also strongly argue that to meet BSA's intent, the troop committee should make itself available to the scout for presentation fairly fast. I'd argue on a weekly basis or so. Introducing a month of delay for proposal approval is wrong. BSA does say in BSA GTA 9.0.2.7 to be considerate of the scout's time as the scout is probably just as busy as the adults.

This is a non-issue to me. I'm not seeing any significant change. So PTC has family activities. Great! Maybe more scout leaders will get trained. Packs have always had parent/child and often family based activities. Normal Rockwell often painted the family in scouting pictures. ... It's really nothing new. .... The issue is really if this continues into the troop ... or if there is an official BSA change. IMHO, cut BSA some slack. We need to recognize that the current new generation of parents (30 year old parents) and their kids have not been outside (camping, hiking, fishing, etc) like previous generations. This is a big hurdle. It means BSA has to be the ambassador of outdoor activities and introduce very basic things such as ... out houses, gas stoves, sleeping under-the-stars, etc. So, I'm just not opposed to references of family camping ... if it introduces the adventures and promise of scouting. ... I always think back ... My mom's family did not have indoor plumbing until she graduated high school and they were in a suburb ... not at all the country. .... Society has evolved drastically since BSA was created in 1910. Experience of 100 years ago are now very foreign. It's fine if BSA tries to be more "friendly" to the family. And, I just don't see a signficant change. It's hard to keep a 100+ year old program relevant.

BSA is very guilty of chasing the next hot-button idea.

Personally, I like the idea that the scout has to present his proposal to the troop committee. It's a nice touch. BUT, it's not officially required and I'm not sure troops can "require" it. It's just a nice tradition some troops do. In our troop, the scout has his proposal and finds any way possible (phone, email, face-to-face) to ask the person to look at his proposal. If there is time immediately available, they do it then-and-there. If not, then it's a scheduled review. District approval in our area is fairly quick with a phone call. I do find it funny when the troop has a large committee presentation, but does not take the district approval as seriously. I've finally become fully accepting that the troop and committee can approve, but the district can say no.

In our troop, scout budgeting involvement changed depending on the scouts we had and the adult leaders we had. Scouts always worked meal cost. Parents helped as it was their checkbook that paid for the food when their son was shopping. Often, scouts worked all event costs and how to split cost for the event. Scouts always did the annual event and calendar planning. Usually, adults reserved sites and worked the budgets. A few times, scouts got involved in total costs. But not usually. I was always happy if scouts could successfully prepare, setup, run the event / camp out, cleanup, re-pack and do post-event cleanup. Full 100% budget responsibility would be great, but not within nornal scope.

I've always liked this approach. It gets the committed / involved adults away from the scouts. It gives parents a place to go. It helps recruit parents by showing them opportunities to help. It avoids adding yet another night to the scouting calendar.

This is a picture of one of my favorite scout trips of the year. A three day canoe trip we did every Sep / Oct.

WOW !!!! I remember those videos. For years, we used a VHS set of BSA tapes that taught annual planning. The scouts laughed at how antiquated they were, but they really helped structured a good training session. Not sure why we stopped using them. I think we could not find a VHS player or something one time. That annual planning session was a high point.

If it were my troop .... I'd want the scoutmaster to let the treasurer and committee chair know before major purchases. Not for approval. More to be polite and considerate. Annual planning should setup the budget and expectations. From there, don't nit-pick the SM. He's a volunteer. Tents will last longer than the scouts. As such, I would "guide" the scouts as it will be a long-standing decision ... mainly because you want all the tents to match and have interchangeable parts. We used to use the base Eureka Timberline 4 tent (with vestibule). Never had trouble with wind if it was properly staked down. We've now switched to the Eureka Timberline 4 "OUTFITTER" tent. The lower rain fly is critical to keeping the tent dry. The base version rain fly just is too short. The new base version zipper is too fragile for the scouts (old version from years ago had a great zipper). We've always looked for deals. This is a $399 tent, but we've never paid more than $220. Always be on the hunt for a sale. IMHO, having a standard troop tent is important. It helps set the personality of the troop. It helps let scouts room with other scouts instead of just their friends.

I've read and learned a lot about scouting. I've never heard of the neighborhood commissioner approach. When did that change? For the last 20 years, I've only seen rather ineffective commissioner corps.

http://www.northernstar.org/units-first Still impressed. Scouting structures have shown their age for a long time and have screamed to be re-engineered.

I'm sad. I always found the Wkik site as the most useful way to find information. It was a great resource.

I fully agree with the exception that we should stop talking about "scout-run". "Scout-run" should be for the adult training and part of the internal philosophy of training. But for the "scouts", I just don't think they really care at all about "scout run" or "adult run". They want adventures and to hang with their friends. Beyond that, "scout-run" is an argument 98% involving only over-passionate adults. I fully agree with the ideas of "scout run". I just think the results of our obsession with it is part of the reason we have an image issue.

Latin Scot ... Very well said. Well written. Very considerate. I do take issue with BSA not standing on principle. BSA's has always promoted that scouts need a faith component. The "principles" of that component comes from the families and the charter organisations. Did BSA remove membership restrictions for BSA as a national entity? Yes. But that really reflected the "principles" and "values" of the charter organizations and families. BSA has been asking these charter orgs for a long time to give their facilities, money and time to support BSA. The trouble is many charter orgs do not support what many (not myself though) would argue are anachronistic values. Removing the membership restrictions lets families and charter organizations define the principles. It was the right and only thing to do.

"Where" ? It's about resolving the contradiction between "charter orgs" and BSA. Who defines sin ? Most of our charter orgs are churches who specialize in defining right and wrong. The trouble is not really BSA's membership as much as how publicly the issue is debated right now.

Agreed. It often felt like a square peg for a round hole. Never really fully matching. It was more LDS used BSA as a youth program as the program was 70% matching. It seems more a left-over relationship from the 1920s-1960s. But as society evolved, the LDS faith development program needed something else. I don't view it as LDS strong arming or BSA leaving LDS. Rather, society changed. LDS could have chosen to use BSA within the context of LDS but instead decided it was finally time to create their own branded youth faith development program. It may have a huge financial impact, but it should not be surprising or even debatable. The program and needs drifted apart over many decades.

I did not know that, but it could be BSA admitted girls but at a lower level (volunteer and paid leaders, but not participants). I still would argue that there is a reasoning / logic link between the two.

The Jaycees. ... What's sad is that the local Jaycee organization is now gone. Was that due to the court ruling? Or society trends? Not sure. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roberts_v._United_States_Jaycees I always thought the Jaycee case was similar to the Boy Scout case.

I remember researching and reading on this as it was fascinating. I always wondered if this case would be decided differently now ... or differently depending on the mix of the Supreme Court (which has recently gone conservative again). I reference the membership rules for a local community organization. I'm trying to remember the group. Not the Lions. ??? ... I can't remember the name. Back in the 1980s they did not admit women. Then they were sued and lost. It bounced different levels up the court system but they did conclusively lose in the end. The argument was was the organization was mainly a civic organization and there were laws to promote non-discrimination. As such, there was strong interest in the state to see that such civic organizations did not discriminate. I always wondered if BSA could have lost as BSA serves far more in the civil role than a religious role. Thus it could have been strongly argued that BSA had to not restrict membership. ... BUT units could have been restrictive, if the charter was a religious organization, as you can't force a religious organization to violate it's own fundamental tenants. My oldest son entered 1st grade right after Dale v BSA concluded. Our family has seen the membership ranks dwindle drastically. ... BUT ... I don't think it's all Dale v BSA. Some yes, but I think the larger issue is the change in society. In the last twenty years, society has drastically shifted what's ok / not ok. Habits and tech has also drastically shifted. It's clear Dale v BSA has affected our access to schools. That has hurt recruitment. BUT, I think there are other larger factors happening at the exact same time. The old "perfect storm". .... Sears recently failed. It could be argued Sears failed to stay current and significant to the current generation. I really hope BSA does not go the same way.

I've seen many worn on the shirt like the original poster. Mine have put them on the back of the MB sash. I'd like to say it's because of I'm a rule follower and I've read the insignia guide. I have read it. I like to follow the rules. But there is a more important reason. Sewing dozens of little segments is a lot of work !!!! What happens when they grow in size ? One mother said you cut that panel off the old shirt and re-sew it to the new shirt as a panel. My family is lucky to keep the main patches accurate over the years. Rank. Position. Misc. We'd never succeed keeping the huge panel of segments current ... in my house.

I'll be very sad if it's the end of meritbadge.org. I very much enjoyed using the Wiki interface to look for scouting information.

Kudos to my council - Northern Star ... centered in Mpls / St. Paul, MN. I listened to a presentation last night about pending district changes and re-aligning how the council / districts serve units. Re-engineering to serve units first. Re-aligning districts. Though few precise details were given, the right words were said and the presentation was very good. The timing was right to ease into a significant change. The right change processes seem to be happening. ... I trust the delivered changes will rise to the level suggested in the presentation. I'm proud to be in the council. I've always been extremely impressed with the council leadership and staff. My family and I are very lucky to be in such a great council.