fred8033

I avoid the "bad kids" debate. My view is scouting can be good for everyone, but everyone is not good for scouting. Each individual has to be willing to work within scouting's boudnaries and expectations. If the individual can't, then the individual should find somewhere else to spend their time.

I just removed my latest response. Ya know ... I wanted to assert a good framework through which we can teach leadership. Perhaps, this channel shows we can't do that. Maybe we stop pretending to teach leadership and just stick to knots.

We should tone down. The CO / BSA relationship is not a perfect marriage. It's a Venn diagram. There are things that BSA supports and the CO can't and vice versa. The program works in the common center. ... For example, paintball. Probably okay for many COs, but not BSA. As such, paint ball should not be part of the scouting program in that CO. I'm sure we can apply the same common center approach for many things from activates to safety to advancement to membership. For me, Guide To Safe Scouting is most difficult for me with laser tag. BUT, on the other hand, I am extremely hesitant with other things such as canoe trips. I've had my young sons on long river canoe trips with me. BUT, I would not take a 4th grade Cub Scout den on a river canoe trip even if it's hosted by a local state park and I view it as reasonably safe. The key point is GTSS says no and I don't want to accept the liability if something happened as I've already been told it's not acceptable.

Authenticity is a line of research centered around being an effective leader. And this is far wider than just business circles. It can be applied 100% to clubs, military and social circles. "Primary point of being a leader is to accomplish things." ... No. That's one characteristic of leadership. I can get a huge amount done without anyone helping. I can get a huge amount of done by bully or dictating. But many of us would not want to call a bully, a dictator or a guy working by himself a leader. Being a leader is about getting people to follow you, setting objectives and having those people work with you to accomplish those goals. "Authenticity" is a simple term around a larger academic branch of leadership research that I find fascinating. I think that line of research would be very useful to teach our scouts leadership.

Absolutely agree. Years ago ... and we've fallen away from this ... our patrols each had a monthly activity. Most of their patrol meeting was about that monthly activity. Maybe a movie. Maybe a game. Maybe something else. The key was the patrol mtg was about doing something they wanted to do. Yes and no. Scouts do learn best by seeing behaviors and repeating them. BUT, reflections is critical to develop and ingrain permanent skills. A passive leadership example I remember very very well was between my oldest son's troop and a younger son's troop. In the older son's troop, we consciously set a practice that if one person was working, we were all working. AND adults teach by setting the example. If an adult was working, we got up and helped. ... If scouts were working, we did our best as adults to find something to do ourselves too. ... We don't leave someone working on their own. We're a team. We value each other. We help each other. We are considerate. Many times, I'd have a task and usually more than enough people would get up and ask if they could help. ... A reflection of cheerful service. My younger son's troop had a practice that each scout was responsible for their own stuff. Fine. I can understand. But it went way too far. ... My son and I arrived late to camp because of conflicts. His buddy and his tent were not setup. His buddy's gear was sitting next to the tent bag. ... that itself upset me ... It was left to be setup in the dark until we arrived. I setup my tent ... on my own. (fine, I've done it many times) ... In my first troop, that scout tent would have been setup by other scouts stepping up to help. Instead people sat around the camp fire and essentially watched my son and his friend setup their tent and watched me setup mine. ... By the time I was done, I was pissed. I really didn't want to talk to any of the other adults. Their sitting without making the most minimal effort to help showed that I was not valued. ... I thought I had offended someone. ... But it turns out that's the troop's personality. ... It made me sad as it was a lesson I did not want my son to learn. ... He and I talked about it later. How did it make you feel? What did you wish would have happened? What example would you want to set? ... Key point I tried to communicate ... I expect my son to get off his butt and help. Period.

For the first time, I heard leadership described as authenticity. I didn't know that was an old representation. I wish I heard that representation 15 years ago. I think it's a great term around which to teach leadership and relate attributes of leadership. I think we as scouters can use the term "authenticity" as a teaching tool. For many years I've assserted BSA unit leaders should stop explicitly teaching "leadership" as so many leaders do an absolute horrible job at it. Often I see bad examples, demoralized scouts or explicitly the exact oppositve of what I view as good leadership. Instead, I've suggested using very simple scoutmaster moments and then mainly focus on keeping the scouts active and inspired to do new things the the scouts themselves get invested in doing. BUT, my recent reading on "Authenticity may be changing my opinion. https://hbr.org/2005/12/managing-authenticity-the-paradox-of-great-leadership What if we use "Authenticity" as a primary tool to teach leadership ? What is it? How do we live it?. Authenticity is NOT necessarily an innate quality. You can consciously groom and develop it. Authenticity is a quality that others must attribute to you. People want to be led by someone “real.” People see authenticity as sincerity, honesty, and integrity. Ensure that your words are consistent with your deeds. aka ... practice what you preach Look for honest feedback. Beware people telling who only tell you what you want to hear. Pursue experiences outside your comfort zone as they sharpen social awareness ... aka SCOUTING Effectively manage your own relationship with your past and your followers’ connections to their roots. ... “authenticity” as “of undisputed origin.” Insatiable interest in the complex factors that reveal where his direct reports come Finding common ground with the people you seek to recruit as followers ... it's not about being false, but selectively revealing parts of who you are Conformity versus being brash Too much conformity can render leaders ineffective; Too little conformity can isolate them. To influence others, authentic leaders must first gain at least minimal acceptance as members of their organizations. Great leaders understand that their reputation for authenticity needs to be painstakingly earned and carefully managed. Heck ... I think I could do a year worth of scoutmaster minutes around "authenticity".

It depends how you define "high adventure". One person's adventure is another person's normal weekend. High adventure in context of my experiences New and challenging experiences --> BSA Sea Base ... Activities that we just can't do where I live. Physically demanding --> Philmont ... Carrying a heavy pack for 6 to 10 miles each day. Setup. Tear down. Hike. Hike. Hike. Dependent on your own crew for health, safety and success --> Northern Tier ... You are significantly further out and isolated than any of the other adventures. Help and comfort are an hour away. Maybe not a day or more away either. Cost --> All ... 😁 Each can also be viewed as not a high-adventure. BSA Sea Base ... Expensive toys and the beach. BSA Philmont ... A week of summer camp activities with a BSA second class five mile hike at the start of each day BSA Northern Tier ... A canoe trip. I've been on several high adventures and I cherish all of them. Sea Base though holds a special place for me. It was a unique adventure different than any of our other adventures.

Is there a difference between insurance and liability? If your council has the camps closed because they say it's not safe ... and you as a leader take your scouts elsewhere, you may be "insured", but are you still facing liability for ignoring council recommendations? I'm not a lawyer. I've always wondered about this.

I view parent attendance aligned with a term a girl scout professional taught me years ago: progressive responsibility. Lions - Parents should be there 100% of the time. Arrow of light cubs - often separate. New Boy scout - mostly separate 1st class - almost always separate Eagle scout - don't even ask It's a progression and it often depends on the youth ... and the parent ... lol.

I flip back and forth on this. My experience is that scouting units (packs, troops) need relatively light policy and procedure documents. Document habits. When do you meet? How much are dues and when? How do you share fundraiser profits? ... A new parent guide ... Beyond that, I find little need to document policies and procedures. RECOMMENDATION: Resolve the situation first. Then, outside the situation, discuss whether a policy is needed. I've sat in too many committee meetings where hours are spent debating a well written policy that is driven by one or two situations. Then, after the incident is done, we never touch the policy again. It's never published. It's never communicated again. It really turns out it was a policy for this one incident. My conclusion: Don't create policy during problem situations. You will often end up with policy that you don't want to live with and that others won't follow. Queue a policy discussion for later, but don't create the new policy during the situation. Policies written during situations often become bad policy. Sometimes I wonder if discussing policy is the passive aggressive way to handle bad situations that are really best handled clean and upfront.

Parents are not required to accept responsibility for other people's kids. We are all volunteers. If you are not comfortable, then don't do it. It's also acceptable to not do it if it's hurting the experience of the other cubs. "IF" the parent has already said they would talk to the council, then I would suggest they do that. The council does have special need units. They probably do have a special needs pack that would accept the scout. I would require the parents to stay until the cub says he's okay with them leaving and you are comfortable with the cub staying without the parent. I'd also ask if the bridges are already burnt. If the parent is saying they'll take it to the council, I'd be tempted to say they already acknowledged the situation is bad. Maybe they should move on.

Ideas for agendas for annual planning, PLCs, etc The only other thing is don't go after a single answer. Provide ideas / resources, etc. As I've come to learn, there are many ways to do scouting. There is no single answer. I've found my reason to have my sons in scouting is often very different than the reasons of other people. The experience I want them to have is very different than what other's envision.

Lions. Now Kindergarten.

It's not that it's not needed. There is a hole. I don't see a youth targeted scouting web site that helps youth do scouting. Many sites exist, but NONE sites are youth oriented. I agree that a WikiHow or a Wikipedia site would be useful. I do NOT think it would be useful to create new content. But a well organized presentation of scouting topics targeting youth would be very helpful. Then, leverage links to outside youtube and other content. Site could have Ideas for: Meals, outings, games, objectives Resources for: Planning a camp out, working on merit badges, etc My only personal request ... don't make it a "here's a checklist for ..." type of site. We're trying to trigger ideas and make leaders; not award MBAs.

A few comments. I have no issue with people scanning records. If scanned, you need to assume it will exist for a long time ... longer than you planned and ... in more hands than you'd ever expect. It's unrealistic to expect volunteer parents to cleanly purge records. It's unrealistic to expect volunteer parents to cleanly follow paperwork procedures. At least with paper, it's a physical limitation. Where's the paper ? It takes space. It requires explicit hand off. They don't proliferate without action. I've found paper records from 20+ years ago. As I've found old paper records, I've also found old electronic records ... in weird spots. All it takes is a volunteer change. One volunteer has one procedure. The next has a different one. If your troop changes the volunteer lead for each campout, I'd expect electronic records to spread wide and fast. Our troop procedure Our SM / camping coordinator shared responsibility for the health forms. On many trips, there was a two gallon zip lock bag stored strategically in the scoutmasters backpack. Other times, it was in the troop trailer in a small locked cabinet. Other times, it was with the official medicine person if we had one. Usefulness Hospitals / emergencies ... I've found doctors don't really trust the form in emergencies. They glance at it, but then need to still do everything. ... And sadly, I've probably been involved in 5 to 10 ER trips. ... Thankfully, none in the last four years. Troop volunteers ... I've found the form most useful to the key adults in the troop to know how to dispense medicine or handle emergencies inside the troop. I find the whole medical form thing to be way more debated / stressed than it really needs to be. Get a paper copy. But it in a binder or a zip lock bag alphabetically. Then, move on.

I always thought it was because our events have more trees than power outlets.

Remember 12th code of Dinotopia: Find the fun.

Your key point: "council level in Scouting today is a lack of technical knowledge on how to effectively grow Scouting." Agree. As a 12+ year district volunteer, districts and councils chat all the time about how to drive membership. But there is little special they can do. The only success is helping units run their own membership drive. Flyers. Road signs. IMHO, districts are a bygone idea of the past. Councils are the new districts. Perhaps, states should be the new council. Individual border cities could align with a different state if it makes sense. BSA needs to rethink the structure because times have changed. Recruitment should be nationally driven. If units need flyers, put ten different fliers on the national site and I as a unit volunteer can get them printed. If they are even needed anymore as schools don't hand out paper fliers anymore.

I was thinking what I would like to see that might be possible. Many scouts can "google" to find the answers. Most scouts are very capable online. The only other thing I can think of is a site that lists the best online resources for specific badges. We used to have meritbadge.org that showed requirements, etc. And it was targeting adults. Maybe something similar that's quick and efficient and finds best-of-brand already existing content that could help a scout. Essentially the yellow pages book (which you probably have never used. ... of the best resources. ) Someone doing a computer merit badge, could be routed to the best existing resources that help teach those topics.

I remember being a parent newly introduced into scouting and slowly learning the turf issues and grudges between the scouting groups. The more I learned, the more I was astounded. As a parent, it shouldn't involve me or my kids. But the division almost pulls the parents in. It's not good for anyone. Each has significant problems. Each has huge traditions and very meaningful purposes. The divisive issue is each has resources and staff. Sadly, I fear the division reduces the effectiveness for scouting for all scouts. As a parent, I just don't understand why the organizations can't work together. The real problem is they should be one organization.

Your video reminded me of why I like river canoeing. On a river you can rest and still make progress.

COR sharing with SM seems appropriate. SM's job is to protect scouts. The SM is the guy around the scouts. He needs to know and maybe know rough general reasons. As for committee member, it depends on committee member's role. ... I'm not hearing any obvious issue. Things seem reasonable ... without knowing anymore. There will be grumbling. People won't be happy.

Be careful !!!! ... When issues like this happen, everyone is tainted. ... BSA is not rich enough to afford legal battles when volunteers argue. The end result is often both get banned / removed. "Back then ... " ... organizations always change with the volunteers. For 15 years, I had a set of volunteers, I clicked with naturally and it was great. Now, there area few volunteers that I don't click with as much. So, I've moved to volunteer in a more limited targeted way. Maybe in the future, I'll volunteer differently again. I enjoy scouting both ways, but I'm not going to fight a losing battle. "Back then" is usually a magical mix of volunteers that worked well together or was perceived as having worked well together. I fear your situation has already gone far, far astray. I pray it smooths out for you and yours. REMEMBER !!! Don't take this as a personal criticism of yourself. Learn from it, but don't get overly down on it. Ultimately, this is temporary. There will be other ways to spend your time. There are fulfilling, meaningful opportunities everywhere. Maybe there is another way in scouting to volunteer and spend your time. If so, great. If not, move on. It's not worth damaging yourself. And to be honest, you will also damage others by fighting without a smooth way to succeed. It's just not worth it. My recommendation ... Quietly let this de-escalate. I had originally written "do everything to deescalate", but there is probably not much you can actively do. Sometimes the best remedy is time. Maybe a few kind consolidator words.

My experience is "part 2" is often the view of the side that is frustrated. Could be done better. Should be done different. Etc. ... If it is truly a YPT, you have responsibility report and escalate. Period. District training violations are often a "suggested" ideal way of doing things, but can drift. Common sense is amazingly not as common as you'd think. Scout oath and law are between you and your conscience. . My experience is "part 1" is the real issue. Volunteers always want to be confirmed as valuable and useful. Volunteers always fear fly-in, hit-and-run volunteers. ... You can do a lot of good, but you always need to invest in relationships even if you just want to help out. Always.

Kudos