fred8033

Let the perception be that y-guides and soccer be the little kids program. Scouts should start when we trust them to start a fire and use a knife.

Going back to three years would be a huge improvement. Expanding cub scouts to be same size as boy scouts has been a killer for retention, perception, etc, etc, etc. The current 5.5 years way too much.

Just starting my comment off yours. My apologies, I'm not targeting you. Just sharing my thoughts. It's just an award and really not that special of an award. Any kid that stays in and is mostly active earns AOL. Also, parents do most of the work. Any cooperative kid generally earns AOL. I fear emphasizing AOL as a culmination or "highest award" perverts perception. It makes people question the meat of the rest of the program if AOL is emphasized like that. The real learning of scouting comes from the individuals doing activities independently as they mature. Example - sleeping in a tent they setup during a thunderstorm. Cubs started as a way for younger siblings to be in scouting while their older brothers did really cool things. IMHO, we should get back to that. Cubs is fun and family and some skills building. ... AOL? Fine, but it's just not that big of a deal. (Don't tell my kids I said that).

I just don't understand the need for small councils anymore. Most training and registration is online. The key now is economies of scale to reduce cost and offer more opportunities.

Yep, but low scout numbers. 4300 scouts. That should be considered a small size council that could be merged yet again one or two more times.

Requiring 2+ registered leaders for each den meeting escalates den mtg plans to "PACK" level planning. Pack reserves one bigger den meeting space and a common time. Then dens share. If not two dens, then have a pack committee member, CC or CM attend too. In the old days, we could reserve a school cafeteria for a very cheap rate (a $50 budget item per month for the year). OR a local church. OR an outdoor space that is just "used" without reservation.

I hear open snide jokes about BSA and CSA from those involved in football and hockey and other activities. ... I just don't get it ... As long as I've been alive, the worst crimes ... and I do mean crimes ... have been committed by those in those sports against others in the sport or against others in the schools. Worse, there is every bit as much abuse from adult leaders in those groups as have been in scouts. ... BSA needs to get better handle on the perception.

@LostParent ... Wishing you the best. Scouting can be frustrating. Try to focus on the positive and the good experiences. The times goes really quick.

All the involved leaders are volunteers. Often doing the best they can. We as parents easily get stressed or incensed as our kids and our cash is involved. ... We'd hope finances from the fundraiser and how they are used would be clearly reported and shared. Often though, it's at the time and energy of those involved. At times, I was just happy when the treasurer made the deposits in a timely manor. ... Or reimbursed people in the same week. ... Be careful what you wish for. You might end up as the fundraiser coordinator or treasurer. BUT ... your request is not unreasonable. I'd want the same info. I'm just saying the leaders are volunteers and might be doing the best they can. "Paperwork" wise, each unit (pack, troop, etc) always has it's own committee chair, committee, scoutmaster, and leaders. The Charter org has ONE charter org rep above the units to coordinate scouting in the charter org. If the units are tightly tied, the paperwork could show the same person as COR and CC for all units involved. It's happened. It's really up to the volunteer leaders and how they want to structure it and how much they can handle. I'm not surprised that the boys troop and the girls troop have separate CCs but overlapping committee members. To really figure this out and understand more, often the best place to start is a smile, a handshake and friendly cup of coffee. Build the friendships first. Ask the questions second.

The non-profit is the charter organization (if there is a non-profit). Troops don't incorporate; charter orgs do. So, "if they are sister troops", then they are probably under the same non-profit. It's okay for a non-profit to have a fundraiser and then share the results with their specific missions / sub-groups as they see fit. Scouting dollars almost always stay in scouting (99.99% of the time); but that is not even a hard rule. The non-profit "should" have an annual report, but that's for the bigger non-profit organization (church, etc). Scouting is an arms-length program that works mostly separately. Finances don't co-mingle with charter org "usually". In fact, the charter org almost never sees the scouting money. So, don't expect scouting in the charter org annual reports. ... BUT ... I'd hope the troop publishes their financial state at least once a year. Ideally, once a month. BUT, it's not required. My question is what was communicated for how the fundraisers would work. If they are following that, they are good. If you don't agree, you can advocate for change. The best way to do that is to get more involved in the unit. Another way is to stop participating in fundraising. My real question is are they closely tied or loosely tied. One charter org? One committee? One committee chair? Do they camp together often? Do they have a single or overlapping schedule? If so, they sharing funds makes sense. ... on the other hand ... if they are a different committee and different schedule and don't overlap, the funds seem like they should be separate. It's really up to the leaders in the unit to setup the expectations and communicate.

Some bad behavior is push back because it's mainly their parents that want them in scouts. They might not really want to be there. Some bad behavior is perception. We remember past new scouts being better than they really were. Don't ignore bad behavior. It can poison a troop. Also, don't over react. It can kill the fun.

@vze3nbyb1 SM & CC not informing committee may have been their attempt to keep sensitive information from becoming gossip and overwhelming a kid already in trouble. I can respect that. BUT, the challenge is it sounds like the whole troop knew or were about to find out. It's really not a good situation.

This is a phrase that makes me stop. It's well intentioned and wishing nothing but good for everyone. It's also very dangerous and can kill a troop. You can endanger scouts (teaching drugs or other edge behavior). You drive good kids away. Your troop gets a bad reputation that scares future families away. My view is behavior needs to be within scouting boundaries. No drugs. No criminal activity. (etc, etc). Youth outside that boundary are beyond scouting. Yes, scouting could help them, but you can't accept responsibility for them and you can't risk the whole troop. If the youth returns to good boundaries, then the youth can be in the troop. Until then, the youth needs to move on. Every situation has nuances. You know this kid. Your scouts know the kid. It's really on those in-the-know. ... the fact your scouts say the kid needs to move on is a good indication. To be honest ... the kid may already have moved on beyond scouting. The kid may not care about his scouting future.

Is he having fun in scouting? If so, celebrate. If he doesn't get a specific MB or rank, don't sweat it. It's just a youth activity. It really doesn't matter. Focus on your connection with your kid more than forcing his achievements.

And if your COR is also the CC, then talk to the charter executive officer (the pastor, etc). If you don't know who that is, call the council office for advice.

I'd question the value of scouting if that's the average. For active scouts in our troop, the average was closer to 15 to 20. Summer camp 5 nights. 5 to 10 of the offered monthly campouts. 3 nights a year does not sound like fun scouting. I really hate thinking that way. Yes possible, but what is the value of scouting then.

I wish everyone the best. Change can be very, very painful. Personally, I enjoyed the OA events and ceremonies. Using AIA folklore added character. For long-time OA members, it's core to OA. I also cringe and won't defend the OA AIA ceremonies when asked by others. I personally don't want to be associated with it. For new scouts and their families, it's an obstacle to overcome.

This is one of those cases where I roll my eyes. The key is should youth be challenged by going outside camping to have experiences beyond their comfort zone. Then whether it's BSA or a NSO, it's moot. IMHO, a NSO would be a huge waste of pre-existing resources and goodwill to rebrand to satisfy a small population of disgruntled people. BSA cries out for real, massive re-engineering, but destroying and restarting is just not a real option.

@Mrjeff The challenge is defining what are the rules? With BSA been beat up with so many challenges lately, I really don't know the rules your a concerned about. A specific MB that is strongly political? Faith requirements? Sexual orientation? Gender? What is your analogy specifically targeting? At some point, I wish we'd just define Eagle scout (our ideal result) as completing 100 nights of camping with similar number of cooking their own camp meals, setting up their own tent, etc, etc ... and, some skill demonstrations (First aid. Swimming. Camping. Cooking. etc, etc) and say 150 hours of service. The rest is noise and too often 3rd rate quality.

Ten years ago, we were at least $7000 for a few years. Four scouts active and two adults. A few years the kids attended summer camps from multiple troops. Sometimes high adventures. Other costs. ... On top of the explicit cost, add wear and tear on cars and adults and time away from jobs.

Councils are already seeing that. Thus councils starting all-in funding themselves too. Individuals pay much larger fees and are not expected to do FOS.

Question ... if $400 is cost, why collect $200 ? Or is the $400 with weekend campouts ?

Nope. It was a power mom that wanted her son to earn Eagle.

I only mentioned camping as we had a similar challenge with a parent suggesting that camping counted by pitching a tent inside a building counted as camping as the scout did not like sleeping outside. That defeated purpose of the badge. Similar to a stationary exercise bike instead of a road bike outside on the road.

Cycling or hiking or swimming. It's not really required. If none of those are possible, then there are other options like @RememberSchiff suggested. I read in the original post "had" large motor delays. I took it as the scout matured slowly. If the scout still has disabilities, than the disability route should be taken. Also, I really like what @InquisitiveScouter suggested. I see many adults all the time use recumbent bikes. There are three wheel versions of those too. https://www.amazon.com/Mobo-Recumbent-Cruiser-Tricycle-3-Wheel/dp/B002LOT6SK/ref=sr_1_16?crid=1CNSPNNDLZ1RE&keywords=recumbent%2Broad%2Bbike%2Bperformance&qid=1696517636&sprefix=recumbant%2Broad%2Bbike%2Bperformance%2Caps%2C112&sr=8-16&th=1 IMHO, I'd really rather see a replacement MB than something that rips the guts out of the MB.