fred8033

That should be the standard goal for all of us; every day of our scouting careers. It's the whole reason people have donated their lives and material and money to scouting.

Yeah. ... I never envisioned it getting to 75%, but I would not be surprised. This whole case smells like a gravy train (with more words I'll avoid adding). But then again, we've been told to not speak badly of the motives of the lawyers involved. ... It's just hard not to with $1500 hourly rates, the massive monthly bills and a big slice off the top at the end. I just don't see any good coming from this case. Period.

That makes sense. Then, it's not really BSA paying. It's a settlement trust that has been set asside for this. Is that in the current negotiated agreement?

QUESTION ... What about the other lawsuits BSA was facing? Do they submit claims to the settlement trust? Specifically GSUSA seeking millions for BSA infringement and damages. If BSA gets out of bankruptcy, it's a new company and past debts are cleared. Does GSUSA then go after the settlement trust?

It will be interesting to see if any of the COs can use previous abuse settlements as shields for repeated liability or effectively class action status.

I'm betting we are at least 18 months out before anyone sees a check. I'd question whether the settlement trust can start being dispersed or if it is on-hold pending further litigation with insurance companies. Or will individuals see one smaller check for BSA settlement. Then potentially another check for insurance companies.

Question (seriously) ... How would BSA continue to re-imburse for counseling? What I mean is bankruptcy is the clearing of previous debts. BSA will be a new company. ... IF BSA starts / continues to pay for previous wrongs, then those payments put the bankruptcy in quesiton and opening the question for others that did not get full restitution.

I am very strongly in the let the scouts decide. Not even the SPL deciding for others. The scouts should be able to choose their tent mates as much as possible. It's the scout's experience, let them own their experience. As for patrols ... keep your patrols. Kids can trade and move around ... but patrols are patrols. even if just two kids. That's who they are. You want to promote patrols as part of the scout's identity. Ad-hoc patrols subverts the patrol idea.

Yep. Then add the mix that not only do scouts need different methods, but adults do too. Further, we often have so many adults that you can never get them all on the same page. Some common phrases I think about. Continually adjust to maturity and needs of the scouts Continually back off as soon as scouts begin to take the lead Number one job is to keep them from major injury Adult leaders should be in the background; not foreground Adults need mentoring as much as the scouts Forms and print-outs have few places in scouting Often best to focus on program and adventure. The rest will follow. Like a sun tan.

I'm really okay with that ... IF ... seriously IF ... you apply the same rule to the adults. Otherwise, it's just hypocrisy. I've heard enough that adults need phones for other responsibilities like staying in contact with the family at home. The reality I've seen is it's really much more close to the exact reason the scouts want their phones too and the parents often want them to have their phones. Check web sites. Text friends and family. Be reachable. ... I have a serious issue with setting expectations for the scouts that the adults won't follow. IMHO, I'd rather see us teach the scouts to be responsible; use the phone as a productive tool and not a reason to hide from other people.

Yep. We keep re-circulating the same discussions. It's to the point that I just have contempt for discussions about "scout-led" or "patrol method" or many others. The very adults that say they are doing it so well then at the same time subvert the program. I've sat in and participated in years of debate. Only to see it rarely done well. A recent one I've heard ... The scout leader that is proud to repeat stories of: ask your patrol leader. The leader thinks they are teaching a good lesson. As often, I bet the scout thinks the adult is looking down on them. ... I keep thinking back to the common questions my 1st son's SM would ask when helping a scout solve conflict. What happened? What do you think the other person saw happen? How do you think it made him feel? ... So in response to the "go ask your patrol leader", I only ever respect that answer if it's worded like "That's a good question. I don't know. Let's go ask your patrol leader." THEN, the scoutmaster gets out of his chair and walks with the scout to the PL and says "PL ****, Timmy has a question". Then, let's Timmy ask the question. ... Any leader that says "ask your patrol leader" and then stays seated" is usually doing far more harm than good. At this point, I'd much rather listen to discussions on where can we go camping? What's new that the scouts have never done before thru their school or with their families? I'd much rather listen to training on how to run a good camp fire program. I've said this many, many times. I'd put our scouts up with any scout troop out there. We might not be as shiny. Our patrol lines might not be snap at attention straight. ... BUT, our scouts have the miles under our belts and do the work. Our scouts easily average far over a hundred nights of camping and stories to tell.

I absolutely love Ask Andy. Learned a huge amont from those columns.

All for improving YPT. Improve reporting. People need to recognize abuse happens. It's real. It often happens by people you trust; not just the creepy guy driving an ice cream truck. ... BSA YPT is good with rules and guides, but weak on opening your eyes to take it seriously. It's opposite of the first VIRTUS trainings I took. VIRUS opened my eyes with cringe worthy video interviews of abusers from jail. Statistics. Grooming practices. Darn creepy stuff, but it opened eyes to say "This is real. Take it seriously." VIRTUS was weaker on rules and guides, but it was extremely good to make you take it seriuosly. I even argue we need to re-engineer the program to allow a safer program. Though patrol method and scout-led, etc are sacrosanct, there is much we could do. Heck, it's also an opportunity to recognize the very-simple-concepts that define scouting is difficult for many to implement. What I mean is ... I've seen patrol method and scout-led messed up so much that I just don't trust when people argue these concepts anymore. ... What I have mostly seen done well is ... Let's go canoeing. Let's hike to the top of that mountain. Let's learn to water-ski. Let's do a 50 mile bike trip. Let's sleep under the stars. Let's go camp and tour this national monument. ...

I hugely agree. I do think troops should help the scouts earn SCOUT really quick. A scout should never been in a troop for a year without earning SCOUT rank. First or second meeting is great. A month or two fine. ... It should be simple and if the scout has missing parts, it's easy to fill in. I agree the key should be "opportunities" to advance, but the program should be fun and adventure oriented. Let the kid do new things. AND, if that means sitting in a hammock for an afternoon, fine. For many, that's a new experience.

I like the idea of having first year programs available, but not required. Perhaps the camp should publish a skills training calendar for their woodcraft area. Monday night KNOTS. Tuesday night LASHINGs. Wednesday SWIMMING. Thursday FIRST AID. Have a sign-up sheet with a max number to know how many staff are needed or if troop adults need to step up too. Scoutmaster could get a report of who attended which skill ... if necessary. Really, the scout demonstrating is the big thing.

I absolutely love that idea. Adults are their own patrol. Separate from youth scouts. If they want to be at camp, they should do similar activities. Learn skills etc. Idle adults and untrained / unskilled adults are often the bane of scouting.

One person's stunt is another person's confusion on how to deal with a difficult / confusing situation. Not everyone ... including myself ... always handles difficult / uncomfortable situations well. It takes real grace. I don't handle it. If you can, cut them slack for having handled it badly. There was a friendship. It's probably still there somewhere.

Wishing you the best. This whole process is an emotional gut punch.

@ThenNow ... So, civil liability was retroactively extended as Supreme Court applied a difference between civil and criminal. Criminal cases were still bound by SOLs. So, are corporate criminal cases also bound by SOL? Or is there a SOL difference between human criminal cases versus a corporate criminal case? It seems then that we are bound by only recent criminal activity. For example, what is the SOL for the appropriate criminal activity for not reporting. Sexual abuse cases have extended SOLs, such as memory + years or adult + years. But what about failure to mandatory report? Essentially, what crime and what look back window? It seems the SOL starting point is NOW and then minus the window. 7 years. 10 years? 15 years? I'm hoping BSA was following the appropriate state law for the that time window. When did MI make youth program leaders mandatory reporters?

There is no ban. My favorite humor on this is the national Jamboree depended on scouts having cell phones. It's a 50/50. Some allow. Some don't. All say to use appropriately. In our troop, it was don't use the cell phone at the detriment of program or socializing with other scouts. We asked adults to follow the same standards as the scouts. We absolutely would not make the scouts search their gear and we would absolutely not collect phones. It's really not a good way to grow a connection with scouts or to treat them as mature, responsible people

Just checked the G2SS ... Register as a MBC and complete training. The G2SS says anyone camping more than 72 hours must be registered as a leader. ... It doesn't say "in your unit". Just as a leader. If you register as a MBC and take the YPT training, then show your BSA registration and BSA training certificates to the troop. As a CC, I'd accept that as fulfilling the requirement to be registered. I'd let you camp with the troop. The question is whether the church requires a Virtus training for camping with troop too. Or just being a key leader. There must be other non-Catholic members in the exact same boat.

This is the root of everything. It's something individual churches need to find a way around. BUT, it's hard. I'll sadly attribute the rest to words said in frustration by everyone. I'm sure the SM/CC and others were frustrated too. It's a huge mess. If they were friends before, find a way to patch the friendships. Apologies. It's easy to get defensive when we are affected and we are helping our kids. I'm betting historically, the troop has not been seen as a tightly linked program of the church. ... BEFORE ... NOW, driven by scandals and legal cases. Now, newly recognized liabilities made visible by BSA bankruptcy abuse settlements and possible CO exposure. NOW, the church must treat this as a church program following the church's official procedures. Training. Background checks. etc. ... It's why I'm recommending my troop's charter org sign a "facility use" agreement instead being a charter org. A few nice words and seeing how you can make this work will go a far way. Also, if your son was having a good experience in the troop ... find a way to let it go. Let your son have HIS experience. Try to minimize how your experience affects his.

Virtus training and additional background check. A church admin nightmare for non-members. The church might be boxed in to stay complaint with training and background check requirements. I ran a program at my Catholic church that had a large number of non-Catholic volunteers. There was a transition to require Catholic vulnerable person training and tracking background checks differently. ... It killed the program. ... We depended on dozens of volunteers from many areas. Multiple parishes. Multiple faiths. Some of no-faith. .... Tracking their training. Getting them "VIRTUS" trained. An extra church special background check ... It quickly killed the program. We had always required apps and background checks. ... The training and background checks were coordinated thru the home parish. ... aka a sponsor church ... If you are not a member, the background investigation cost needing to be paid for by the church and the church signing you up for VIRTUS training was really hard. We went from a great volunteer program that I had the honor of running it for almost ten years to something our volunteers had to support out of other churches. NONE of the other churches had a YPT requirement. https://www.virtusonline.org/virtus/ ... FYI ... the Virtus training was excellent. I always thought BSA & Virtus training I took were very complementary. One procedural (BSA). One eye opening (Virtus) ... None of the other churches had a background check requirement. .... Dozens of local churches. Lutheran. Episcopal. Methodist. Jewish. etc, etc, etc. To this day what I ran thru my church, I now volunteer at a different church. I'm still surprised my home church that I love requires the extra steps and the other church does not. Coordinating across parishes ... We even had a nightmare coordinating Catholic volunteers from a different parish (possibly incorporated separately, property is separate, admin separate, etc). The background checks are considered PRIVATE. Required individual release forms. Then, each home parish had to release data one-by-one. ... Admins (aka real individuals) have enough challenges organizing their own members. Organizing from other parishes and non-Catholic members is really hard. Serious issue ... Recent scandals and legal cases have been hard. New procedure. Extra oversight. The Church must take this seriously. Getting it right. Keeping records current. Paperwork in-place before the involvement. ... Changes continued to happen each year. .... Real challenges. Real cost. Timeline ... Think of this ... person wants to volunteer. Virtus first (schedule, take, a few weeks). Then money for background check. Do background check. then BSA registered and BSA training completed. Easily a month passes. Person can start volunteering. Every month, church needs to check for who will need their data refreshed. New background check. New training. etc. Nine months later it starts again. (two month buffer). Then on every twelve months after that. My recommendation ... is there a middle ground? I really, really doubt they are rejecting you or your son because of who you are. I bet it's a huge admin nightmare. QUESTION - Is there some way for you to volunteer / help without being registered on the committee? Campouts require BSA registration and YPT, but not necessarily troop registration. So, volunteer somewhere else to be registered and trained. Such as MBC or District or ??? or OA ? or ... Then, continue to help your troop. Drive scouts. Cook for adults on camp outs. Etc. Heck, the best job might be as standing cook for the adult patrol.

I can accept your view. I think scouting is more advanced than many programs especially as the leaders are now so focused on YPT. But I accept your view. ... I think the real risk in scouting is the stupidity at times. Do we really need a G2SS to prevent the use of canons at camp? Well, yes we do because ..... My concern is mainly from what I've seen through my life. Not seven layers of separation, but two. My city. My school. My kid's school. My kid's classmates. Local teachers. Local roller rink. Local music teacher(S). When I was a kid, it was several hockey players in my high school class suspended for what today is a felony. I truly believe more damage will be done by treating it as BSA specific. Society needs to recognize abuse happens, even where you least expect it. It needs to be recognized and reported. I remember what I considered a shocking YPT violation in the last ten years by a hockey team leaders. Traveling game. Hotel room. All the dads went out for an evening at the bar. One guy stayed back with the players. Was it always the same guy staying back? Staying late? Socializing with players on his own? ... IMHO, it should have been clear two or more should have stayed back. ... Ahhh ... but it's hockey. Abuse never happens there. (sarcasm) ... My wife has similar stories. The youth pastor who somehow quickly married a young lady that was one of the youth in the church.

Sometimes it's not about the money. It's about the key unique identity provided by the HA bases.