fred8033

Is your council dropping commissioner service? I assume yes, but I wanted to explicitly ask.

We've been thru this.

We've been thru this. Views differ on the same facts. BSA had procedures in place before many others. BSA tracked and blocked many. BSA had training before many others. All of society is shamed. BSA is a scape goat being financially raided.

I view it as 31% (56,000 remaining from 82,000 claimed) as a payout of $3500 is nothing and the claims then are not really vetted or proved. I suspect there are so so many reasons that I don't like reading in reasons such as failing to destroy BSA. I suspect the number will continue to reduce, but perhaps not more than half the original.

It will be interesting to watch the numbers diminish. 31% of the claims went away without significant scrutiny.

Time for a dedicated volunteer corp. Linux is based on volunteer maintenance. BSA could do similar with leadership materials.

I have to speak up as I'm an opposing view. PDF documentation enable BSA to rapidly update documents and provide the documents free to the end-user. BSA should just partner with a printing company that then can print and ship on demand. It is wrong wrong to charge for materials that volunteers need to volunteer and have already paid their membership fees to volunteer. ... Maybe, BSA should charge for bigger books like the scout handbooks. Beyond that, we want BSA documentation to get into the hands of volunteers as fast and cheap as possible. We don't want people volunteering and avoiding reading / seeing the materials because they have to pay yet more yet again. My big fear is that BSA maintaining an inventory of printed materials is a cost that needs to be off-set in sales and membership fees. That creates a profit center that slows down keeping books up to date and creates a disincentive to make all the literature free as PDFs. PLUS ... Some materials already have high volunteer input / authorship. GTA? If this can be done with high quality, it should continue and grow. It feels wrong to charge for volunteer maintained documents. ... I love the GTA and G2SS being free as PDFs. IMHO, many more documents should follow that approach.

THANK YOU ! I love seeing how documents change over time. I've repeatedly compared versions of G2SS, GTA and rank requirements. It's extremely useful to understand how things evolve.

Agreed. Fundraising can mitigate the cost as it can in sports and other programs too. The cost discussion started because of asserting scouting is a good value compared to other programs like sports. Since those programs can also fundraise to reduce cost, the comparison is best done on raw cost. What is the family cost before it is reduce by unit fundraisers. I'd still argue scouting is a great program, but not necessarily cheaper at all. If your scout is active, it costs money.

Yep. When our first son started in 2000 (2001?), the cost was way way way less. I think registration for him was $12? Plus $5 for a year of Boy's Life? Plus, another $12 for the adult leader app? It was reasonable. Add a Tiger cub shirt and minor items; reasonable cost. Ten years ago when I had four sons and my wife and I were registered ... and active ... we were easily spending $5,000 a year. A high adventure a year. Four summer camps. Campouts every month for at least two kids. Activities. Uniforms. etc, etc. ... I can't imagine what the cost would be now.

Eagle application deadline is not when the scout turns 18. BSA Guide To Advancement; section 9.0.1.5. https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/33088.pdf The scout has up to 24 months to complete the Eagle Board of Review; BSA GTA section 8.0.3.1. Assuming three months to schedule the EBOR, the Eagle application needs to be submitted within 21 months after the scout turns 18 ... but ... just turn in the Eagle application ASAP. The Eagle rank "REQUIREMENTS" must be completed before the scout turns 18; not the application. https://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Eagle_Rank_Requirements_2018.pdf The key is the Eagle application is not a rank requirement. It's paperwork to get recognized as an Eagle.

I will challenge this one. If your scout is active, scouting has significant cost. If your scout and you are both involved, it's very significant. IMHO when both scout and parent are active in scouts, the cost is at least the same as most sports; if not more.

I hope this works too. Keep these camps teaching adventure to youth. It's too important to lose.

Well said though though I can easily flex on the "provider" view. I know many very feminine women who have strong professional careers earning good money and I know many very masculine men who daily wash dishes, do laundry, vacuum and bathe their kids. I agree though that we scare too many of our young men away from being masculine.

Sounds like a Charles Kuralt Sunday morning TV show.

Twice called to task for showing bad pictures? I agree it's extremely in appropriate, but what 1968 law would have applied? If we look back on 1960s as the era of free love and redefining society, there is way more to this story than can be read here. And it 100% misses the time and context. ... He was expelled when more came forward. Yeah, the system worked. Like so many case law examples, the incidents are ugly and don't show society at it's best. But, it seems to have worked. ... I agree I'd prefer the police were involved. BUT, that was society in the 1960s. I'm more upset with so many groups that kept not reporting even in the 1990s, 2000s and even the last few years.

Ahhh... That's a logical fallacy to change scope when the judgement shifts. I was referring to the earlier use of a specific person that where the poster used that person to argue the system failed. From my reading that specific case file, the system worked. ... Similarly, an earlier poster says many of the files refer to incidents in the vaguest terms is yet another logical fallacy. The same files that contain vague references often also contains very specific details and interview notes. It's an ugly topic that indites society; not just scouting. @skeptic ... I really appreciate the NY Times 1935 article about the IVF files. Amazing how misrepresented details can be.

He was blocked re-registering in the 1970s and 1980s. The 1968 letter had the SE say they could not ignore the accusations and said it was Brock's actions that led to the result. For 1968, this seems like it was handled well ... for 1968 ... before computers ... before modern laws. This sounds like BSA's files worked well. The one thing that surprised me is no police report. So so so many of the files do have police reports. I bet there was not a 1968 chargeable crime. The 1960s were a long time ago and so much has change. A lot has changed.

Me too.

Tangent ... I'm pretty familiar with BSA membership numbers. Does anyone have a graph of GSA membership over the last decade to this year / last year ?

My suggestion is to love the past and the involvement. Then, move on. Find the next place to volunteer. Scouting is not the end-all-be-all of life.

Interesting articles in the last few days. Uri Berliner (NPR editor) published editorial about NPR, bias, DEI and other related topics. Really well thought out. https://www.thefp.com/p/npr-editor-how-npr-lost-americas-trust Uri Berliner suspended by NPR. https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/16/media/npr-suspends-uri-berliner-liberal-bias/index.html I'm a four decade long NPR listener from three different parts of the country. My local channels have absolutely been incredible. But like the article says, I've had a hard time continuing listening recently because of the repetitive and think-this-way news coverage. I highly recommend both articles.

I hate typos in my own writing.

Minor argument that is negotiable. One scout on a campout could be a patrol. We can all agree a patrol is a patrol. Regrouping into adhoc patrols or doing doing things at the troop level subverts the patrol system. When forming long-term patrols at troop meetings, two patrols is not good. Ideally, seven scouts is a good patrol size. ... BUT if on the campout, only one scout from that patrol goes on the campout, then that scout should be given the option to cook by themselves.

Liberal is in the eyes of the beholder. I mainly use it as humor. Political terms are assigned by the observer. My more old-fashioned friends call me a liberal. My new-age friends call me a conservative. I'm pretty sure I'm the same person; just not a simple label.