fred8033

Does this mean incidents will need to be judged on whether they were "scouting" or "church"? If scouting, it's part of bankruptcy? If church, it's not?

VFC? VFW?

I'm burnt out on the discussion of same age / new scout / mixed age / etc for patrol design. I wanted to add though ... the worst mistake our troop ever did was rebalance the patrols where the SPL and the ASPL based on input from a strong-willed parent rebalanced by assigning scouts to new patrols. Horrible mistake. The first / second year scouts took it easy. The 16/17 year old scouts almost quit. I'm highly for letting the scouts choose their patrol ... always ... with a little bit of supportive guidance from SM / SPL. Let the scouts switch patrols if they want. I just hate telling the scouts here's who you will be your partner all weekend. It's the number one way to create scouts that ignore what you say. I still remember the 16/17 year old scouts who had strong ownership of their Wolverine patrol. Learned at an Eagle COH that they choose the name because they loved the movie Red Dawn and that was the team mascot in the movie. They had strong patrol ownership. Proud. Then, being told to (in their eyes) arbitrarily join a random new patrol. It destroyed a point of pride they had.

There must be more to the story. Did the CC ask the unit commissioner to run the mtg? There is no path for a unit commissioner or former COR to take charge without the unit putting them in that position.

... we got bounced ... ... too controversial.

That's a huge branding loss. Tabernacle choir is rather generic and few know what/where Temple Square is. I fear this will be long-term like The Artist Formerly known as Prince. We will have a choir formerly known as the Mormon Tabernacle Choir.

Thank you for the answer !!!!! Wow. Even if two or three legal entities, those are massive deep, deep pockets to sue. .... FYI ... I periodically have to look up TCJC. It's not a common abbreviation for LDS without LDS tacked on.

Great insight. Reflect on the scout law and the values we want to teach. We don't want to teach our scouts to look down on others. Why would we want our marketing to lift scouting up by looking down on other choices. ... I like competitions and races and championships to find who's the best and to raise the game. BUT, I don't like pride thru snearing another person's faults. Should not be in our marketing too.

Thank you ! That explains what I thought would happen. If a CO opts out, they maintain insurance rights even against an insurance company that settled. That's what I would expect. So, if LDS opted out or for COs that are not part of the settlement, those COs still have claims against their insurance ... even if that insurance company settled ... considering previously posted time periods and insurance coverage info.

Agree. Parents are looking for the outdoors, adversity, etc. Not many parents crave the standing at attention uniforming anymore.

Hmmm ... I read the Mike Rowe article. Yep. Fully agree. ... Standing up to aversity instead of providing a safe space. ... Speaking as a parent (not a leader), I would have supported my son's troop having a boxing ring to resolve arguments. It's a very important memory from my son's boot camp experience. He was able to call out someone who did him wrong and they addressed it then and there. ... I would not have the skill to run it, but I could see that being valuable. My goal for my son's scouting experience was to get them out of their comfort zone and do new, harder things. I often describe it as experiencing canoe camping or bad weather or other outdoor challenges. Well, there is also the need for standing up for yourself and facing adversity. And yes also adversity in the face of another person. Marketing? I agree. Parents are aware of scouting. Marketing could always improve and scouting misses standing in front of 2nd grade class rooms and show pinewood derby cars to recruit scouts. But the real issue is the product. Even scouters are confused on it's value. Baseball, football, etc have clean statements of why they exist. I'm not sure scouters always know why scouting exists.

Thank you for the nice write-up. This is the part that will eternally confuse me. The insurance settlement is with the victim; not the theoretical CO. Unless the insurance company is bankrupt, why would the CO go after the settlement trust. The CO should work with the existing insurance company that insured the CO. This smells like a 100% match of the 1990s California BCBS class action. BCBS insured patients and BCBS was negotiating discounts (aka settling) on medical bills and leaving the patient out of discount (settlement). The medical providers then went after the patients for the remaining part of the original bill. The CA courts ruled (my crude summary) that BCBS breached the insurance contract by not including the patient in the negotiated discounted bills. BSA insurance settling liability claims without covering the insured CO smells like a violation of the basic insurance agreements.

Question #1 - TCJC has deep pockets but do those pockets extend to incidents that happen at a specific church temple / specific troop? I compare it to Catholic churches where collectively they have huge assets, but legally they are very separate. Diocese are individually incorporated. Many of the local churches are even not legally owned by the diocese. Is that similar with TCJC? Or is there a stronger legal ownership connection to the national TCJC ? Question #2 - Sort of still related ... and asked before ... how do insurers settle but the insured still has liability? If COs like TCJC are not in the settlement and the insurance company is not bankrupt, then TCJC should be able to go after the insurance company that insured those incidents ... it seems like the insurance company won't have full liability protection.

Shooting Sports guide. Page 100. https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/Outdoor Program/pdf/30931_WB.pdf ... Must be bio-degradable and ping pong sized. Ok with catapult and sling-shot. Never aimed at a person. .... It can be argued that the rule applies to only shooting events. The specific rules are under catapults and sling shots. ... So, throwing a water balloon by hand is not subject to shooting sports rules. Then, look at Guide To Safe Scouting ... https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/34416.pdf ... "Prohibited Activities ... 15. Activities where participants shoot or throw objects at each other, such as rock throwing, paintball, laser or archery tag, sock fights, or dodgeball" Now, that's pretty clear. It's one of those rules that we hate. But then again, scouts can easily become a lord of the flies situation where the strong gang up on the weak. It's an understandable rule from that aspect.

It's really about breaking the ice; getting the new guy up in-front with a positive experience so that they want to be up there again. And, when it's friends with friends, there is something different there. In cubs, it was mostly scout with proud parents. Now, it's the scout's peers recognizing him and the adults off to the side / back. We all nit-pick when things don't work out. The smallest issues get under our skin. I would have loved to have been part of a troop that could meet at a camp regularly. But then again, I'd imagine that gift can twist the mentality of the troop and the volunteers too. IMHO ... don't get stuck trying to make it work. If you and your scout decide to stay, great! ... but if you are already losing sleep over it, seriously considering moving on. Another troop. Another activity. In hindsight, our kids years are short. There are many paths to take. Trying to force a good result from a bad situation is not constructive. IMHO ... look at your scout and see what is best for him. At times, I wish I would have just bought a popup camper and taken the family on more adventures. Other times, I am thankful for the memories my sons have with their friends.

My son said the same. Sleeping and living in the field was always more of a challenge for the other Marines. ... The part my son added was that the drill instructors reminded him of the camp ranger, his boss for three summers.

My question is the reverse. Even if the CO does not contribute, how does a claimant maintain standing to sue when the claimant settles for the same incidents with the underwriting parties that insure the CO. The existing settlement seems like an agreed value of the damages and a closure of the claim. It would be one thing if it was two completely independent entities being sued for the same incidents. But with the underwriting relationship, I'm not sure how that happens.

Nothing was in the trailer to fix the trailer. We had a few basic tools for basic stuff. And duct tape. And WD40. You can't pack everything in the trailer. If you equip to handle every contingency, your trailer becomes too heavy for most vehicles, including many trucks.

COR vs CC vs SM vs committee? That's really about who appoints who? BSA's troop structure is different from a business structure where each level up owns / approves the lower level work. BSA's structure appoints people to roles. Then, once they are appointed, they own that job. The only caveat is that the ASMs work under the direction of the SM and the committee members work under the direction of the committee chair. @qwazse had it right with the above link to the troop documentation. Look at Troop Committee Guide. Here is a PDF link to a fairly recent version. Look at description of the charter org rep on page 7 and the committee chair job definition in chapter 4. http://www.commissioner-bsa.org/kit/Troop Committee Guidebook 34505.pdf Who chooses the patrol mtg agenda? The patrol leader. The SPL should suggest topics such as preparing for camp outs or troop activities. With the suggestions, the PL leads the patrol. The patrol will hopefully have some patrol unique stuff and then also what the SPL suggested the patrol prepare. By patrol unique, I love hearing patrols that also do their own monthly activities and events. The SM is the lead person working with the scouts. The SM sees that the scouts are trained to do their jobs, such as the PL being comfortable running patrol meetings. Scout Badge Yeah. I'm frustrated with the original post, too. The Scout Badge is to be a quick win. Scouts experience working on requirements, being tested and getting recognized. Scout Badge is exactly setup to be awarded at the first court of honor after joining the troop. No need to camp. No need for time sensitive skills. It's to be a quick win to start the advancement trail. That's the important question. You will never find the perfect troop. In fact, the "ideal" troops may be troops you want to avoid, depending on how much the adults bicker on the interpretation of what's the right way to do things. Is your scout growing and benefiting and having fun? If so, smile and plan how you will slowly improve the program when you become scoutmaster. If your scout is not having fun and growing, look for another troop.

My son often related his scouting experience to his military assignments. ... During field exercises were not that bad to him while others found it hard / scary / creepy to be out in the weather all the time; sleep under the stars and/or in the rain and weather. ... Funniest was talking about Marine boot camp. ... The camp ranger that was his high school boss was very much like a drill instructor sergeant. He had less stress in boot camp than others.

Thank you for the summaries and insights. Much appreciated.

Can be. Camp should not assume unless explicitly stated. Kudos to adult volunteers who step up to supplement camp staff. That's their choice and kudos to them.

Looking at the wall behind my desk. Years ago, I had two extra sashes. So, they hang on my home office wall and show my bling. Eagle dad pins. Eagle mentor pins. Favorite camp patches. Pins from other organizations I received. Pin for my Woodbadge animal. Pin for religious scout org. Better than hidden in a drawer. Reminds me it is scout stuff.

No one gets in cheaper at the big high adventure camps. The Summit is one of the special camps. Personally, I think it's a good idea. Too many camps are filled with too many adults. Also, if a troop wants to recognize the extra work of it's leaders, there is no reason it can't charge each scout $50 more and discount the leader cost. The Summit would be on my bucket list. Consider it. Scouts will have great experiences.

Well ... since I like giving my opinion. minimalist I want a functional uniform. Easy to wash. Pins. Hanging patches. No disassemble / reassemble at each wash. Appropriate for hiking, biking, canoeing or outside in the weather Survives muddy, sweat and hard use. Quick to build-up after purchase. I want two or three matching shirts without spending hours sewing each and trips back to the scout shop for extra patches that I'm missing. I want a uniform I can use all the time and everywhere; not something that has so much bling that I feel like I am a display case. I have too many memories of events where I know I'll sweat through all my clothes and be soaked ... or be coated with bug spray ... or be dirt or dust covered. ... Because the current uniform is only marginally functional, we bring an extra shirt or wear a t-shirt under the uniform ... THEN ... after flags or meal, we take off our uniform and pack it away. ... also ... patches don't breathe ... and patches catch on things. Related Allow velcro position patches. Badge Magic is evil. Sewing is a form of purgatory. Provide multiple width sashes. Some kids have a lot of bling they can show off. Allow adults to have a sashes where they can show off their recognition knots, camps and brag. Allow some non-merit badge patches on the front. I absolutely love when scouts put their favorite event patches on the back of the sash. Allow a few on the front: their favorite (or 1st) summer camp patch ... a patrol or unit special patch. Their sash is the perfect place to brag and show off. Heck ... if the uniform was more functional, then formality can be introduced by wearing the sash ... just like OA.