fred8033

@Armymutt ... I have nothing much to add except your situation is not really that unusual. I've seen it several times in my years. Youth issues that reflect of adult conflict. Usually, it results in changing units. Always, look for positive growth experiences for your kid. It might mean changing units or changing hobbies. Wishing you the best.

I fear the mistakes were in the 1970s, 1980s, 1990s, etc. All those leaders are long gone. For example, most companies in the mid-1990s started having email retention policies because a huge store of emails and electronic documents virtually guarantees having something that can be twisted to be incriminating during litigation discovery. Even if you are the best and most altruistic corporation, a huge store of outdated, obsolete documents is just not a good practice. There should have been a retention period ... not to hide bad practices ... but to protect against dangerous litigation.

An accountant asked me at one point how much risk are you willing to accept when deciding how much to pay myself versus take as a draw. You can be really really safe or reasonably safe or take a risk or just be foolish. ... Somewhere between the lawyers, the accountants and the executive leadership, BSA made massive mistakes with a wonderful program and organization.

Okay. I just saw the following. New requirements online and QR codes to access/ Scout shops to get new MB pamphlet inventory. I always think about the carrying cost. Ouch. https://www.scouting.org/program-updates/important-update-merit-badge-requirements-moving-online/

QUESTION ... What is the change? I see physical MB pamphlets can still be purchased. Is it only to emphasize online MB first and then paper second? Or is national stopping the distribution to scout shops and people need to go online to purchase? I'm just curious.

The mistake was getting involved in the debate. Introducing this a few years caused frustration without gain. Now, removing causes frustration without gain. ... Scouting needs to focus on paddling a canoe and cooking over an open fire; not the politics of the left or the right.

HUGELY AGREE ... I almost wish there was a opt-out if we know the scout already had it covered in school. ... Wasting scout's time kill the program. ... Doing a MB on a topic covered in school makes scouting look 2nd rate (and wastes the scout's time). ... Citz of society was the 5th badge if you count Family Life as Citizenship in the Family. ... There are just too many class room badges and not enough active badges.

I really question that statement. Is it fully true or only true within boundaries? ... If I read the explicit requirements, I really have little problem with them. If I read the larger societal discussion of DEI, I begin to have larger issues. My two big issues are ... #1 the badge was reactionary to a specific place-in-time and the content is redundant with the whole scouting program. The whole concept of the badge was at the heart of scouting. We did not need an explicit badge that was a known larger political firestorm. #2 In my 20 years of troop scouting, the number one criticism scouts had of merit badges was wasted time. Four citizenship merit badges? Five if you count Family Life as Citizen in the Family. Sure scouts didn't have issue with the content, but I'm pretty sure they had problem with their time being wasted. The lesson learned here is BSA should avoid short-term politics and focus on the long-term goals. Scouting teaches character and responsibility thru outdoor adventures. That has never changed and it's hard to argue. Leave the political stuff (membership, orientation, gender, politics, etc) to our character partners. Scouting has an outdoor structure to develop youth. The rest is outside world noise.

Argh. This is where my judgement of BSA is harshest. Originally, my judgement was harsh on poor legal review. As times changed over the decades, better-than-average youth protection practices needed to be updated to protect both youth and BSA legally. So many things failed there. Now reading the last comment makes me question BSA respect for those donating money. If OA and NESA donations were solicited as endowments, BSA had a responsibility to the donor to respect the donation and handle the endowment properly. What I'm reading instead is that OA / NESA endowment donations were really just another way to solicit general fund revenue. It's either poor accounting, poor legal judgement or outright misrepresentation.

I am always a fan of a friendly conversation. Scouting should NOT be complex. Scouts should not have BOR deadlines, etc. If a scout is ready, have a BOR. If a scout is just missing a SMC, then have the chat.

Thinking a bit more ... I am getting crotchety in my old age. LOL. ... I hope the scout can advance. That would be great. ... But when I hear a parent threaten to pull their scout out because they can't advance, I am frustrated. Advancement is just one benefit and not the biggest one. Is the scout having a positive experience in scouting? Having fun? Growing in character and responsibility? If so, that's the big part. ... I wish advancement always naturally followed that, but it doesn't always. And it makes me sad when the scout loses out on advancement. ... But to threaten to pull the scout because of that is also frustrating to me.

4 years in scouts. 49 camp outs. ... He should have had plenty of opportunities to advance. Technically, the scout could have easily earned Eagle by then. Key point is the troop should be watching and supporting the scout getting at least to 1st class.

Sad, but not surprising. Scouting is best when it involves "outings". It's expensive and very time consuming to the country from the ultra urban NY areas. I enjoy the stories of a parent scouter who told me incredible scouting stories from the 1980s where his patrol (on their own) took the subway to rail stations to get out the countryside for activities. ... I really can't see that happening now. Once they were stopped on the side of the road by the police as they walked to their target park.

The BOR is NOT the place to correct for years of advancement failures. ... If a lower advancement standard has been used for years, then it's too generally too late. The BOR checks if the requirements were signed off ... and to encourage the scout ... and to collect feedback on how the troop advancement program is doing. My apologies if I sound harsh, but if we criticize the scout's advancement at the BOR, then we are really criticizing the troop advancement program for the last few years. Each rank had many requirements to be met and that the troop designated approver signed off on. The SM (and his team) should have been watching. Merit Badges are only one part of a larger more complex set of requirements. ... AND, sometimes a scout (and his parents) game the system beyond the controls of the troop leadership. It's ok to be sad for the scout, but not necessarily mad about.

100% agree. ... Could have some adjustments such as Dakotas could be one council to save cost. Or Dakotas + Nebraska. ... Or one per state to keep it simple.

Hard to pick a good term these days. "Family scouting" implies helicopter parents subverting the program even more. "Co-ed" scouting implies more societal change like the last twenty years. Terms ... I hope we can get beyond terms. Scouting is really not about gender. It's about getting outside, being active, being responsible and having adventures. All of which lead to personal growth. I pray we can focus on the basics of scouting someday.

Good analysis. Also, there has been the alignment with scouting as a reflection of this nation and the recent growing pains of the nation. Scouting got too caught up into too many current political debates. Dancing a fragile line between some faith emphasis / churches support and a secular government / outdoors focus. Scouting has had to survive all the changes ... and it's been painful. IMHO, the "family focus" is a good way to avoid saying "coed"; but it sounds like it's the same thing. I wish I was more active now to see the changes. I trust in 20 years, scouting will be better off.

LOL ... Yes. "always" is too extreme. ... So ... For the last 20 years or so... and my council definitely ... Your whole experience is why the BOR instructions include "review". If someone has already checked the dates, signatures, etc, then the BOR "review" part is mostly moot. With ScoutBook advancement reports, "review" is even more almost moot.

For Eagle ... that was always done at the council office by the person who confirms the scout is ready for an Eagle board of review. ... they check things like are there enough days between each rank ... did the scout get the eagle project proposal approved ... was the eagle project completed and signed off by SM and beneficiary ... were all the merit badges recorded. Is the scout currently registered in the troop? By the time the EBOR was scheduled (for our council), there no "requirements" to check. For lower ranks, the unit advancement chair should do the same thing. Are there enough days between ranks? Did the MBs get signed off by a registered MBC? Did the SMC happen? BOR checking "requirements" is about paperwork being right and not "quality" of how the scout fulfilled each individual requirement. If there is a question about quality, then the BOR separately addresses the quality issue with the SM / MBC after and outside of the BOR.

"Celebrating" as part of encouraging the scout to continue advancement. No one said confetti, play music and serve pizza. "not up to snuff?" ... that type of statement always scares me. It's a review if all the requirements were completed. It is not a review of whether completed requirements are "up to snuff". It's not show how to tie a square knot or show how to do a square lashing knot. Sending a scout back is a fall back option for when things have fallen apart such as the scout has a really bad attitude or the scout has been arrested by the police and a court date is pending.

Absolutely 100%. AND, it's not really "reviewing". A BOR is really celebrating the scout's progress and encouraging their involvement. It's a really bad bad bad message to encourage MBs and getting requirements done and then delaying the scout's BOR. In a way, it's a game. The scout should drive and be accountable for his own progress. If the scout is held up by not being able to get a SMC or BOR, that breeds a jaded attitude.

I'm a little jaded. I don't trust a council or a CO to hold cash for a future scouting unit that would be created years down the road. My gut feeling says the funds would be rolled into a general fund.

@Armymutt had a good solution. When we shut down a unit, we gave our equipment to a newer unit that was just starting. It was the best use.

"out of town" ... What does that mean? 20 minute drive? Or is it a short drive, but a different school district, etc? There is no clean answer. Finding the right troop is a mix of magic / luck of the draw / luck that you make. When the magic is right, scouting is great. I'd look at the whole picture ... drive time ... adventure ... effort to create / setup new troop ... desire of parents to be leaders and setup a new unit, etc. ... There is no right answer. Sadly, I do know the time in scouting goes quick. I greatly miss the 20 years in scouting with my boys. Note that the time in a troop is actually much shorter than you think. 7 possible years, but not all seven years are equal. Nine very active months to a year as a new scout. Two strong years as a younger scout. A good year as a senior scout. Then, the scout is turning 15 or 16 years old. Conflicts. Thinking of the future. Distractions of being a young adult. Those years are very special, but scouting may not be as important anymore. ... Time in scouting goes very fast.

It happens. Demographics change affecting where kids go. Sometimes you put in all the effort and it still does not work out. IMHO, focus most on giving the remaining scouts the best possible experience possible. Maybe a few last big adventures where they can grow and have good adventures. Maybe they will find a new troop, but that's up to them mostly. IMHO, focus on a great experience.