fred8033

BSA high adventure camps have their place. I doubt we would have snorkeled and camped on a Florida island or sailed off the coast of Florida without them.

Not a comment about the scout and more a comment about Eagle Courts of Honor. ECOH are a show. The scripts are usually over-the-top. Specific parts of the scripts are almost always "wrong" as no-one is being awarded a rank. Maybe, "given" as here's the rank you were awarded two months ago. The scripts usually have something like ... "Now, by virtue of the authority vested in me by the National Council of Scouting America, I hereby award the rank of Eagle Scout to you." ... The person saying these words has no "authority" to "award". Worse, the scout has already been awarded the rank and should be wearing the Eagle rank on their uniform. Your choice is whether to attend the Eagle Court of Honor and / or participate in the ceremony.

I've said the exact same thing when I saw the Lion program piloted. Burns out parents. Creates the wrong perception of scouting. Wears out the teaching elements of scouting. It's just too, too much during the early baby sitting years. IMHO, scouting (cub or troop) should start when scouts begin to be somewhat independent. Kindergarten and first grade scouts are tied too too much to the parents.

I'm 100% okay with this. I'd celebrate getting the scouts outside their comfort zone and experiencing new things. My earlier response should probably not have been written during a work mtg.

Argumentative. Patrol includes the patrol leader. The connection between SPL and non-PL patrol members is the PL. The point of the original sentence was that the guidance for the patrol (including PL) is thru the SM and the SPL and that parents need to be careful trying to influence the patrol (both patrol leader and patrol member).

Well said. "with my father" ... I can respect that. I fear this might be a psychology of the troop and a BSA training conflict. Strictly speaking, scouts are to socialize with scouts in their scouting activities and then with the other adults. In conflict, I also attending most scouting activities with my kids, but I tried to keep myself on the outskirts ... mostly. ... It is a pull/push or a training vs reality issue. ... I'm not sure there is a perfect answer other than making sure the scouts have positive growing experiences. "adult leadership crosses over" ... is really up to the troop leaders you are joining. They may very well be open to your immediately getting into a leadership role. They may want you to wait a year. They may have some in-between. ... Number one thing is to make a healthy connection with the existing unit leaders.

100% agree. Changing troop culture is nearly impossible as a new parent. It takes years. ... So for now, ask yourself ... can your son benefit, grow and enjoy the culture that currently exists. Will your scout have a positive scouting experience? Adventure? There is no perfect troop culture, but even a less than ideal scouting troop can be a big positive. Separately, to make change, plan that it takes years. Start by serving the troop that exists now. Build friendships and connections. Over time, other leaders will see your investment in the troop. Once you have positive credibility with the troop, then you can take on roles such as SM/ASM where you can influence the culture. This takes years though. If you push too hard too fast, you will alienate people. Be careful here too. Patrols are guide by the SPL and SM. You risk alienating yourself and causing issues if your words and actions are not aligned with the SM. My apologies if I'm nit picking here. I'm not trying to be a jerk. ... BUT, your son is crossing over. It's his scouting experience. His adventure. You can look for ways you can help the troop. AND, your son will definitely see you value scouting if you volunteer to help. ... "I will be crossing over" is a red flag that always makes me think about does the adult realize the youth scout is to have their own scouting experience.

Do the scout stores stock the new "Scouting America" branded MB books? Wondering if free PDFs online is a reflection that it's cheaper to make free online than to stock all the scout stores.

WOW ! That is a exciting change. IMHO, I see nothing but good by having these available online. Great marketing by showing the high quality merit badge program. Maybe more MB pamphlets will be sold because the on-line content is so impressive. Sounds inverse to the immediate action, but I would not be surprised if it happens. Might market scouting to new audiences and thus drive more involvement. For example, home schooled families may borrow the pamphlets. Then, parents seeing scouting as an easy next step to supplement home schooling. If nothing else, this allows scouting to influence other organizations.

It can be wonky though.

It does support pictures. Physical signatures are an issue. At times, we've used printed emails from the reviewers as evidence of their approval in lieu of signature. Redundancy ... yep ... most if it is because things are written three times ... once as a concept / proposal ... once while doing the work ... once in hindsight after everything is done. I agree it can keep improving and evolving. It will never be perfect. I'm just very glad we have it. I really hope the project is more about the service than about the paperwork.

Because of the sins of the past, I am a strong defender of the project workbook. In our district before 2011, the district advancement chair (and his team) were from the troops that felt it was their job to require formal presentations and require the XXX hours and require large project proposal binders submitted in advance. I truly believe they perceived their job as adding steps so that the scout could appreciate earning Eagle. I also believe if they did not think the scout's experience was enough or the scout was not "worthy", then they would add even more hoops. Worst, they were effectively using their own troop's extra expectations for the rest of the district even though it was nowhere described in the requirements for earning Eagle or any of the BSA published guides. Our troop's scouts often had to go thru multiple months of project proposal review. In 2010, one of our scouts had four plus months of district reviews and was always was sent away with requests for more information. The last month was the district asking for the project proposal to include a map to the hospital just in case something happened. The project was painting rooms at his church and installing shelving. ... THEN ... THEN ... They lost the his three ring binder of the project workbook. The project workbook does NOT exist to make the scout's job harder. It exists to reign in the adults and to set level expectations across all units, districts and councils. IMHO, the workbook and the G2A have been a true gift.

Always refer to the G2A ... Guide To Advancement. In my view ... The Eagle Project is about service and leadership in doing that service. The workbook is well laid out and explicitly describes the steps. The project is enough in and of itself. Adding troop unique expectations makes the Eagle Project more about jumping hoops and than giving service. IMHO, we teach bad lessons when we make advancement about jumping hoops. Not required and can't be required ... but troops still do it. Is it harmful? Mostly no. Is this a hill to die on either direction? No. Is it a good idea? No, but I flip flop and can see both sides. Does it help the scout? Maybe a few scouts, but mostly no. The scout MUST fill out the Eagle Project Workbook in detail. That is the scout's commitment. A PowerPoint is extra and just decorative. Committees ... chair or designee(s) ... must review the workbook. That is what is being signed and is effectively a contract. A PowerPoint presentation is NOT what is being signed off. I've had scouts show me their PowerPoint presentation required by their troop. I sat nicely and listened. ... THEN, we went section by section thru the workbook write-up because that is the commitment. Bad ... Could be the unrequired extra hoop to jump thru that causes a scout to give up on Eagle. Good ... Might give some scouts presentation practice that helps scouts later in the process ... IMHO this is a big stretch. Why do troops do it? Biggest reason I've seen is the worst because it does not match Guide To Advancement. Troops justify it as it gives scouts experience presenting to groups and talking in front of groups. IMHO, that's what the Communications MB is about. That's what the rest of the scouting program is about. Eagle project is about service and leading that service. IMHO, it smells more of committee self-importance. If a troop wants to do it, it's not a hill to die on. Smile nicely. Listen. Don't promote the practice and point out the scout requirements are in the Eagle project workbook and the Guide To Advancement. ... Sorry if I am long winded. This was a hot button topic for me as I've been involved in many Eagle project proposal reviews.

8 to 11 is "possible" and not "unusual", but it's still far from normal. ... It's just very doable. A few independent studies offered by camp. A few camp special events (such as an afternoon Fingerprinting for the Fingerprinting MB). Add a pushy parent. etc, etc, etc. Heck, you can probably earn one or more Citizen MBs just while at camp if the scout does some self-study before camp.

This is what I view as key. Focus on outdoors and growth. I've always held the view that the MB value is lowered when so many key MBs are light weight compared to public school. Using my own education, the Citizenship, Family, Personal Management and Physical Fitness badges would have been easy except for checking off boxes. When the challenge is about checking the boxes, the message learned is how do I game the system to get it done. That gaming the system then bleeds into the other MBs.