fotoscout

Is it just our Scout Shop or is it a nationwide problem that the shop never has enough inventory to support our council? Case in point..... For the past two years the Scout Shop has not had enough Rank awards for our Blue and Gold. Most units in this area do their Rank awards at B&G. How difficult is it for them to order and appropriate amount of patches at each level? In September people went looking for uniforms...guess what? No uniforms..all sold out. In the late spring I saw people looking to buy shorts for camp...guess what? No shorts. Our shop is a National Supply Division store, not a council owned store. What's going on here?

In the greatest sense Ed is correct. There is no training needed for this type of situation. Anyone worthy of working with kids as part of a youth organization should have had the wherewithal to show leadership in this situation. I am personally astounded that no immediate disciplinary action was taken by anyone. AND I still do not see that the Scout Executive was contacted. I see COR, DC, CC, OA, but not the Scout Executive or even local law enforcement. This troop is like FEMA, functioning with a complete lack of leadership!

There should be no question here, if this happened in the workplace the individual would be fired. Some behaviors are simply not to be tolerated. This boy apparently left the area and then returned with a fire arm...albetit a very realistic looking pellet gun. This boy should have had his membership yanked immediately. Would you have wanted to be the boy on the barrel end of that gun? Youth protection intervention, and a report to the local authorities. Counseling for all the leaders and parents of the Troop along with some type of Council probation for the incredibly incompetent lack of immediate response to this situation. The Charter Organization "owns" the unit. They can override any decision the committee makes. In the extreme, which I believe that this falls into, the CO can drop the charter as a display of no confidence with the Committee and Leadership. On the scale of things, this is way off the chart and requires action NOW. A boy that's out of control and leaders that don't know where to draw the line. I hope the CO removes the Committee, or drops the Charter. These people are an accident waiting to happen. What other judgmental errors are they capable of?? (This message has been edited by fotoscout)

When you add this to the security breaches, I think this is the beginning of the end for Cheney. Look for him to resign during the next 4-6 months.

In this world of extended families, is it our responsibility to decide who is in fact financially responsible for the boy. I don't think so. When we look at campership applications we assume that they are honest requests from prideful people who need a little help. On the other hand, we don't have the resources to do the background checks that would be required to validate the campership applications. Most important to us is the unit leaders recommendation. We, the Council Camping Committee, give away as much campership money as possible and do not make it contingent on the unit paying anything.

Yeah, they could have virtual meetings, virtual patrols, virtual outings, virtual camp, and virtual advancements, all from the safety of their homes while sipping warm milk.

Here is one thought on retention...... We see den size going up, because we have fewer adults willing to do the DL job. Consequently, when you have a bad DL, the odds of losing a larger number of boys is increased. Not rocket science. I've seen this happen in too many Packs. Everyone really needs to keep an eye on each other if you want to enhance retention. Many Committees and CM's focus on the Pack program and forget about the Dens. Spend time with the Dens and your retention will increase. As for my own unit, we rechartered with 51 boys as opposed to 55 last year.

Not for the NFL, or the players, or the sponsors. Not even for Joe Montana who wanted $100,000 for a 20 yard walk. It's ALL about money. As for the United Way.....let's not forget that the UW is not everyones best friend anymore. There are Councils who receive not one red cent from the UW, and there are other Councils, like mine, who saw the UW change it's distribution formula, with a resultant moderate loss of funding to the Council. I do have to agree, this was probably a lot of fun for the kids. But were we taken advantage of?

I second Scoutldr's sentiment.....What did the NFL do for Scouting in exchange for the free labor they received? The NFL is the wealthiest of all the professional sports leagues, even wealthier than the NY Yankees franchise! Certainly they could have paid to have the souvenir pouches placed at every seat. I am quite sure that the boys and leaders had a great time doing this, but were they taken advantage of? I think that this kind of effort, done for an organization like the NFL, bears no reasonable facsimile to a service project and is simply opportunistic on the NFL's part. So, what did the NFL do for Scouting?

Try hunting around in this site. http://www.nerbsa.org/ If you don't have any luck, use the phone number and call the region office.

Thank you NWScouter. Eammon, I know of no other unit level fundrasier that is sponsored by, or supported by National. I believe that individual councils have the option to not participate in the Trails End popcorn, but they make that decision themselves. Either way the concept is the same.... individual units should support their councils fundraiser (whatever that may be)instead of being selfish by running their own and then complaining about the local camp or service from the Service Center.

First you have to understand that at some level Scouting becomes a business. Unfortunate but true. Camp costs have to be paid, staff costs have to be paid, and facility expenses have to be paid. All of those costs and more are paid from revenue brought into the Council. Revenue brought into Council comes from many places; interest on an endowment, direct corporate giving, FOS, Camp profits, Popcorn profits, United Way (??) or similar organizations, and more. Your $10.00 annual registration goes directly to National and does not contribute to the Councils financial health in any way. So, when people say, Support your Council it means to participate in Council events and activities. Why? Because many of them contribute to the main revenue sources for your Council. Popcorn for exampleTrails End Popcorn is the National Fundraiser for BSA. Some of the profits go to the unit, and some of the profits go to the Council. I dont know if National gets anything out of this. So when you participate in the Council sponsored Popcorn fundraiser, you are helping to support you Council. The flip side is that the unit can raise more money for itself by conducting its own fundraiser. But here is the conflict.. that same troop expects the Council office staff to process applications, maintain records , issue tour permits, and process Eagle packages competently and on a timely basis. The same troop expects to find the local camp in tip top shape when they come for their once a year $65.00 (total cost) weekend with 40 boys and leaders. That Troop has not contributed one dime, but expects service and hospitality. So when I say Support your Council, I dont mean for you to get up and cheer for them. Hopefully its a call for you to be part of the solution rather than part of the problem. Go out there and be a part of your councils program. If it isnt up to your standards, then be a part of making it better. Participate in the Popcorn fundraiser, do summer camp in your home councils camp, invite FOS to your unit. Selfish vs. selfless.......you decide!!! TheFourGuardians, I hope you have a better understanding of the concept, support comes in many ways. To many others, maybe this will make you stop and think for a minute.

$52.00 OR "Support your Council" would be a better alternative! How many of those people who are now _itching and moaning did not participate in the Popcorn fundraiser? How many of those people who are now _itching and moaning never support district or council events? How many of those people who are now _itching and moaning never attend the in-council summer camp program / or day camp programs? There are regular audits done of the council's financial records and they have an executive board, it's simply too easy to cite bad management as the cause. If the membership of this council showed loyalty, and actively supported there own efforts, this would never have come to pass.

As mentioned above, Commissioners are usually selected or referred by the District or Council Scouter's. Most Districts are always looking for more Commissioners, so there is really no reason why you could not approach your District Commissioner and ask the question. They will probably do some checking and ask some questions before putting your name up for approval.

The answer is Yes. In fact it is preferred because it allows the UC to develop a better relationship with the COR/CO or maybe even the IH. In addtion, most often there is a lot or overlap with the pack and troop adults. Provided this UC is a "get along" kind of person, it can work very well and be of great help to both the pack and the troop.

Here is a suggestion on cold weather sleeping bags: The bags are mummy or rectangular with Polarguard 3D, with a Pertex Endurance shell. They are the top of the line LL Bean bags. Very nicely made and VERY cheap for the type of bag it is. http://www.llbean.com/webapp/wcs/stores/search?storeId=1&catalogId=1&langId=-1&startRec=1&numWanted=20&loggedIn=0&page_type=&hotBG=0&searchTerms=ta45454 LL Bean is discontinuing these bags because, "Our customers don't look to us to supply this kind of gear". They are red, and come with a storage bag and compression stuff sack. For the price you can't go wrong, and if you don't like it, it's LL Bean, you can always return it. Foto

What better celebration of Scouting than to have a special event, AND to have most (all) of the boys go home with something really special like there new rank badges. If that isnt enough, how about recognizing and acknowledging the most senior boys in the pack by presenting them with the highest award in Cub Scouting,. If that still isnt enough, why not, bid farewell to the newest Boy Scouts in the BSA with a grand sendoff. Sure the ceremonies all suffer in this format, but what could be more special. The event itself makes it special. This thread, and the thread that this one spun off from, have all the reasons why many of us do this. There is no reason that this should drive anyone crazy. On the other hand, delaying the B&G so that the Webelos can complete all 20 activity pins is a bit ridiculous. The larger issue here is that the Webelos Program is simply too ambitious. National really needs to do something with it!

The recommended method of nurturing parents then asking them to help is certainly preferred, BUT, most often it doesnt yield the numbers or adult volunteers needed to run a good operation. Unfortunately, this method presumes that all of the adult leaders in a Pack have the personality, desire, willingness, and BSA knowledge to nurture those adults who have not stepped up. In addition, it is only the den leaders who spend enough time with the parents to really get to know them, and the den leaders are generally just too busy being den leaders. Weve been most successful, by pulling the parents aside and doing the ole....."Folks, this is a volunteer organization, without your help it folds". The problem with this method is that it takes someone with the right language skills and vocal tones to make it work. Its very easy to turn this into a verbal tongue lashing for the parents. Good Luck

Without question, the hardest and most unappreciated job is being a Cub Scout Den Leader!

We do something similar here. A successful outcome is largely based on how seriously the Troop takes this opportunity. You should note that Webelos cannot camp with the BS. They need to be separated!

There really is no reason or excuse for a 15 year old to be having a social drink. Both the parents and the boy (and any other children they have at home), should be referred to MADD & SADD. As I read through this thread I could not help but think about what a horrible contagion these parents are.

ASM1, As you can see by my posting in this thread, I am no big fan of how National has handled some aspects of the Jamboree. However I do think that you're way off base with your condemnations. First off, you should have known better than to take such young children to the Jamboree. I spoke to many people before I decided to go as a visitor. All of those people told me the same things; 1 -the place is very large be prepared to walk: 2 -don't plan on taking the buses, be prepared to walk; and 3 -The weather can be a very variable be prepared with boots, rain gear and water bottles. I certainly did not pay $3.00 for any bottled water. There was water available EVERYWHERE. All I did was fill my water bottles as I emptied them. I only took the bus once. I boarded the bus at around 2:30PM. Yes it was crowded, but I did not have to wait very long for it. As a visitor, I was surprised that the day cost me so little. Souvenirs, available only from the Supply Division, do I need to say more.... The food was a little pricey, but the $4 Hamburger was enormous. Let me put it this way... the food was no more expensive than at Yankee Stadium, probably cheaper. I arrived at 9am, walked right in and spent the day. My son had plenty of time to participate in the activities that were available to us. We made our way to Sub Camp 3 and spent about 45 minutes before heading back toward the parking lot. All in all we left the grounds at around 5pm and saw only about 50-60% of the site. Additionally, it appears that you didn't quite follow directions. If you parked in the Visitors parking lot, you should have only needed to take one bus up to Sub Camp 3. It's been said many times that the Jambo experience cannot be had as a visitor. I apologize for being naive, but what did all those scouts and leaders expect to achieve by camping 65 miles away for 4 days? If they wanted to go to the jamboree, they should have signed up. (This message has been edited by fotoscout)

Air conditioned buses for 40,000+..... come on lady get a life! Often we are too quick to limit the fallout that inevitably follows poor decision making. Greg Shields was on the right track when he inferred that "some" leaders didn't follow the rules. But Greg's comments were quickly "corrected", and that's unfortunate. Talking to leaders in another sub-camp on Thursday, they found it unbelievable that the series of events leading up to the tragic accident could have happened at all! They clearly stated that it could not have happened in their subcamp. Scouting needs to come out and tell the world that policies and procedures are in place to prevent this sort of tragedy. It's too bad that the world has already formed it's opinion and scouting has been damaged because of it. As for the Presidents visit; kudos to the people who canceled him on Thursday (although I'm disappointed that I didn't have the opportunity to see him and the show). Scouting should have very publicly fired the Health and Safety Officer over this one. Let's remember that this event was NOT planned for the early morning. This was planned for the latter part of what turned out to be, a very long, hot, and difficult day. What were these people thinking???????????? And how many of them were thinking it?????????

Do you know if this will have a BSA event attached to it???

The difference seems to be semantic. The bottom line is that families should be invited and welcome on Cub Scout Camping trips. Ive seen nothing that describes in detail how a Cub Scout Camping trip should be organized. So, how you do it will mainly depend on your expectations and ambition. Some Packs firmly believe that Pack camping should be little more than a group of CS Families gathering together at a campground. Each family with their own campsite and agenda; and, each family doing their own thing. Maybe theyll have some group activities during the weekend like a campfire. Other Packs believe in using the den structure to organize around. They might still do some ceremonies and other activities together as a Pack. But for most of the time the boys find themselves engaged with their own Dens doing age appropriate activities, possibly working on some of their outdoor requirements. Still others, the very ambitious ones, structure the camping trip around the Pack. One big happy family! They do everything as a big group, including all their meals. They might schedule some den time, but thats not a priority to these Packs. Personally I prefer using the den structure to build the trip around. First, it is the friendliest toward non camping families. Secondly, I do not want to struggle with other leaders in eliciting the expected behaviors from my boys. This has been discussed many times. BSA may be wise to publish additional guidance in this area. If not, they might be wise to spell out the various methods that are commonly used for these camping trips, and teach people about the potential pitfalls of using each method.