fotoscout

Hops, The most important three things about a backpack are 1) fit, 2) fit, and 3) fit. External frame packs are for the most part more adjustable than internal frame packs. This is a good thing since Im pretty sure that you body will continue to change in the next few years. If there is any way that you can try on this pack at a local store before buying it, I would strongly advise you to do that. Remember, you will pay the shipping costs if the pack has to be returned because you dont like the fit. Measure your torso, and make sure that you are in the 18-21 torso length guidelines for this pack. Campmor has the instruction for measuring your torso on their website; REI & EMS also have instructions on their websites. The size pack youve chosen is a little on the large size for weekend backpack trips, but it will leave you some extra space for the more bulky winter gear if youre into winter backpacking. But remember that you want the stuff in your pack to be packed, you dont want it loose and shifting around inside the pack as you are hiking. Last but not least, after youve bought the pack, fill it to the gills and go for a walk! Adjust it, and walk some more, adjust it again, and walk some more. Dont wait until youre on the trial with the troop to find out that you have fit problems. It looks like a nice packGood Luck!

Pompous, arrogant, and book-thumper differ greatly from loudmouth, bullying, and bigoted. One is on the High Road, the other on the Low Road. FOG I am sorry to say that your approach gives me, and I suspect many others, a felling that you are a man lacking respect and overflowing with immaturity. Your disagreements with Bob White (and others) can be posted with more class and respect. Your expertise and knowledge of Scouting can be brought to this forum in more constructive manner. Much as LauraT7 has said, would your Scouts, your Wife or your son(s) be proud of your posts here? I think not, I know mine would not be.

Brunton, the compass manufacturer, offers wholesale pricing to Scouters. I just bought a full Educational Kit from them with eighteen 2090G compasses for less than I could have bought the 18 compasses at Campmor. The kids are all getting the compasses for the holidays. When we teach map and compass in the spring they will all have the same units, and we will have the training aids to accompany the compass that the boys have. On another front.... there are some extreme deals out there on Gregory Backpacks. Gregory is introducing the new model year and has offered very deep discounts on the some of the year end leftovers (sounds like car sales). Anyway, if you are looking for a top of the line pack, check out Gregory packs at your local shop or online dealer. (This message has been edited by fotoscout)

I am not quite sure if you are talking about a den or pack. I think you are primarily referring to the den. The boys, even Tigers, should not be running wild for the hour. Some of that time yes, but not all of it. Even Tiger meetings have structure. An opening and closing can take 10 minutes. In the den meeting they should be doing a craft or game that supports the achievement that they are working on. During the remaining time they should be engaged in a suitable supervised activity. The boys will quit if they are not engaged in the Program, or to say that another way, the boys dont need scouting for a 1 hour play date, and they can do that anywhere and at anytime. If the Pack also has the same level of chaos you need to do something. Fortunately for you, your options are the same weather its the Den or the Pack. You can, take charge, have a serious discussion with the Cubmaster and/or Committee Chair, Contact Council and ask that your Unit Commissioner talk with the CM or CC, or if you have a strong Charter Organization talk to the Charter Org. representative and let them know whats happening. Of course you could always switch packs again, but by now I suspect that you are dizzy and disheartened. It you do chose to switch again, contact your Council first and find out which packs in your area have their act together. Good Luck. PS Without structure it will not get better as the boys get older. Even with structure, the boys will still be out of control at times. It goes away when they get married and have children of their own.

Good for him!

DenleaderDad, You are correct that the belt loops and pins are extra. But you can still weave them into your program and have the boys earn them along the way. The boys will not earn their Wolf badge by completing umpteen electives or belt loops. I would pick a time frame within which you would like to see the boys complete their achievements and have them work toward that goal. You may have a jack rabbit that completes his achievements sooner, but thats OK. After they have earned their badge they can work on many of the electives or belt loops as a group. This also gives you something to build your meetings around. Ive tried to tell the parents that the pin should indicate that the boy has really achieved an understanding of the sport or academic area well beyond the requirements for the belt loop. Often the parents just dont listen and like some other posters here, I get a request for bowling belt loop and pin for a Wolf. Also remember that the Academics and Sports program carries through into their Webelos year(s), so if they do them all now, they will not have any of this program left to work on. You may want to suggest that the boys work on the BSA Family Program or Religion Awards as an alternative. As for your son, if hes motivated let him go. As long has hes getting something out of the work hes doing its great that he wants to read the print off the pages! Many leaders in my area plan to have the achievments completed by December. I think that December is too soon, I like to see us finish our achievments in time for an award ceremony to be done at Blue and Gold. (This message has been edited by fotoscout)

I think that the difference makes for a great trivia question!

Hello Everybody, Lets try this out for a uniform incentive. A friend of mine suggested this method. What do you think of it? A very quick uniform inspection at the beginning of the den meeting. At the end of den meeting raffle off a small toy. Do this each weeek at the den meetings. Only the properly uniformed scouts are in the raffle. He defines properly uniformed like this; Shirt, neckerchief, slide, badges on the uniform, hat, and an acceptable long sleeve shirt under the uniform shirt if its being worn. Any dark pants, (not sweat pants) are acceptable. Any shoes.

Hi, We have the boys make stuff for the tables, placemats, centerpieces, and napkin rings, anything that can go on the table. Last year my den made small US Flags from craft sticks to give out as favors. They were also placed on the tables. The idea is that everyone contributes. Thats not to say that some store bought decorations arent OK, we also get blue and gold (yellow) helium balloons to put on the tables. As for the B&G chairman job, our tradition is to let the outgoing Webelos leaders put the event together. The CM is of course the MC, but the people in charge are the outgoing Webelos leaders. It sounds like perhaps your CM got very embarrassed at some time in the past because the B&G committee didnt do its job. So now hes determined to be a one man show. Maybe you need to talk with him and find out whats going on.

You have a dilemma! Since most of your boys seem to have new book, I would opt to follow that instruction for all of the boys. In fairness, I think that this would be the best way to go. Be certain to explain to the parents that the program changed and these are the new rules. Since its only December and your boys will be earning their badges, you still have plenty of time to load up on arrow points, using all the other electives in the book.

The age of the Scout is important here. Is this a new Scout 1-2 years with the troop, or, has the boy been around for more than 2 years (maybe 3 years). If its a new Scout, Im not sure that this question can be asked without looking back on how the Webelos Scout transition was handled. Did the boys who were CS together move together into BS, or, did the boy move to BS all by himself because someone (something) sold him or his parents, on a troop that was 15 miles away? If its an older Scout, the questions' are in some ways harder to get a good answer for. If the boy was the subject of some bullying by the older boys, you may never get the answer. Perhaps the boy just couldnt deal with wearing a uniform any longer, he probably wont tell you that either! If the boys is (was) into scouting, and left the program you can be pretty sure that the reasons are profound or at the least embarrassing to the boy. This is not to say that something inappropriate happened, probably just kid stuff. But answer wont be found in the standard questions about other activities, school, and family.

The parents certainly have one set of questions that they will ask, and a CS leader will ask a different set of questions. A trained and very involved CS leader will ask still another set of questions. The Webelos really dont know what kind of questions to ask. Why would they, how could they??? TwoCub, my hats off to you for trying to come up with a list of questions for the boys! I think the boys should be asking questions like: How often do you meet? Will I advance if I dont make all the meetings? Will I be expected to participate in fundraisers? Must I be in uniform all the time? Will not being in uniform affect my advancement? What kind of outings does the troop take? Can I go on all of them? I play baseball and will miss most of the spring, is this OK? Do I have to go camping or backpacking? Do I have to go to Camp? What type of behavior is expected of me? What will I be doing at Troop meetings? And Yes I do think that its OK for the boys to ask , How many Eagles has the troop produced? If the boy has his eye on the prize, then he needs to be in a troop that can help him get there.

The black loops are worn only by official members of the BSA internal affairs department which investigates secret uniform violations of a punishable nature -- JUST KIDDING! VERY Good... two points to DS!

Twice now in this thread, posters have commented that child abuse is unlikely in the den meeting. We need to correct and change that thought process! Child abuse can take place anywhere, and at anytime. I shutter to say it, but somewhere across this great land, with a house full of people, some young child was being abused yesterday while the turkey was on the table. Its as likely to happen at a den meeting, as it is at camp. Remember that den meetings are not always with 6-8 boys. Many den meetings occur with only 2 boys present. The YP policy is written to protect both the leaders and the boys. Please dont allow yourselves to be lulled into comfort zone simply because youre having a den meeting in your own home.

Allow me to be the first Thanksgiving Day poster to say, Happy Thanksgiving!! The turkey is in the oven, #1 son has a front row seat in front of the TV for the parade, the table is set and the front door is open welcoming our guests. It just doesnt get any better then this. I hope everyone's is as good. Have a great holiday.

Why have a policy that is exclusive of the event that causes the leaders, and boys, to be most vulnerable? Why have a policy that is exclusive of the event that causes the leaders and the boys to spend the vast majority of their time together? I am of course talking about the den meeting.

Hi Barry, The G2SS section on YP appears to me to be identical to YP Training. Abbreviated but identical. Having said that, it does require two deep leaders. Two leaders or one leader & and a parent. I see no accommodation for a group of three. The two deep requirement is on the first page of text in the G2SS (uh-oh Im starting to sound like Bob). This particular section is set in the overall context of Scouting. Further on in the G2SS, specific YP issues are discussed for different situations such as trips and outings. The really odd thing here is that the CS Leader Book refers to two deep only in the context of trips and outings. We are told that two deep is the rule, no deviations.

The issue of two deep leadership at den meetings has privioulsy been brought up in this fourm. What happened here is exactly what has happened in the past, someone posts that two deep is not required at den meetings. Where I come from, two deep is just that two deep all the time. Just stop and think of it for a second, the YP policies are designed to protect both the kids, and the leaders. Why on earth would the policy be written to exclulde the location where Cub Scouts spend the vast majoirty of their time? It doesn't make sense.

Im sure that some here will not like this response, but Ill make it anyway. Unless you have snow to play with, safe ice to skate on, or a trail to hike, I see no reason to bring a CS pack out in the cold. Go tubing, or go sleigh riding, build snowmen or igloos. Do something active in the winter environment. Wait for the first snowfall, then get on the phone and set up a spontaneous Winter Carnival for the next Saturday. Planning an outdoor winter event with stations just doesnt seem like a good idea to me, not unless there is plenty of snow for the kids to play in.

I think that the two-deep leadership requirement imposed by BSA is one of the best things Ive seen to date. The policy is simple and easily communicated to the leaders and the parents. Two-deep is just that, two-deep, no gray area here! It is of course very unworkable at times, or at the very least, very cumbersome at times. Picture a den meeting and one of the boys needs to use the bathroom. You either need four adults, (two for the bathroom & two for the meeting) or else everyone goes to the bathroom together. This becomes very disruptive to your meeting. I wish the CS camping requirements were as clearly defined.

Uniforms....Did I hear something about uniforms? Nevermind.

Here is a link to the NYT article http://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/07/arts/design/07MUSC.html?8hpib

Bob, When youre right, youre right. Scoutdads method is the very best we can do! But project that method across some span of time. In particular, take the kid I am talking about. Remember that this kids clothing is an offshoot of what appears to be, at the very least, the familys defiance to wearing the uniform correctly. This kid will in all likelihood never wear a proper uniform, not in CS and not in BS. But he does come to most meetings! Across the program there are many kids like this one who will never be in the uniform that you and I would like to see them in. This boy will endure many years of never being up front as Scoutdad put it. At each den meeting, and at each pack meeting, someone else will be up front. Slowly but surely you are eating away at this kid. You are embarrassing him and humiliating him! Not in a single watershed event, but over a longer span of time. Unfortunately its not only him, but all the other boys that will never make it up front.

Before anyone has the temptation to take this out of context...I am not mocking the golden rule of Praise in public, reprimand in private, just using it make a point.

I think gambling a child's self image on the belief that he has a short memory is not a reasonable course of action or respectful of the scouts we serve. Now folks, who are we really kidding here. Isnt this what happens EVERY time you conduct a uniform inspection. Praise in public, reprimand in private, are you inspecting the partially uniformed scouts in a private location? Of course not! I dont care how you do it, it is impossible to conduct a uniform inspection without some kids feelings being hurt. You simply cant do it without bringing attention to the unkempt kid or the kid whose family truly doesn't have the money for proper uniform parts. You may lavish volumes of praise and recognition on the well uniformed kids, but at the same time your silence to the others is disenfranchising them. After all, the purpose of a uniform inspection is not get the well dressed scouts to dress better, the purpose is to get the out of uniform scouts (and leaders) into the proper uniform. If you think that you are not humiliating the out of uniform kids when you do a uniform inspection, then you really need to reevaluate your perspective. Let me go back to private location for a second. You may be conducting your uniform inspections individually, away from the group, but in the same room. Certainly acceptable, and a nice touch, but do you think for one minute that all of the kids dont know whats happening in that corner of the room when my kid in the costume is called to come over. I personally would prefer to make a spectacle of myself while making the point, then to use a bunch of young boys to make that same point.