fotoscout

We have standing policy of our pack of picking up the costs for families that are in need. Our Council will do the same on an appropriate basis. If you can "certify" that the family is truly having hard times, then your committee can simply offer to carry this boy with Pack or Troop funds. One of the difficulties here is the determination of need. Is the family really in trouble, or is the kid playing football /baseball / soccer, and there is no more discretionary money left for scouting? And of course there is this.the boys went to camp! If there was money for camp why isnt there money for dues? Maybe its just timing, maybe not, or maybe he earned his camp money. Either way you need to ask a few more questions.

The best thing a DC could do for us would be to remind the DE & SE that their career path and your desire to do a good and conscientious job as DC are not necessary in agreement. Specifically, I would have you instruct them that the startup of new units will be challenged and scrutinized at every turn. Far too much time and aggravation is spend on dealing with the problems and animosities that surround new unit startups (and the inevitable failure) in this Council. Granted some are for all the right reasons and succeed nicely, But we dont have the volunteer resources to deal with the professionals career aspirations. The bad blood thats generated ultimately affects the program. Good Luck to You!!!(This message has been edited by fotoscout)

Actually I dont have much experience with boys quitting on me. But I do know that there is much more chatter when they quit than when they earn some type of award or badge. The fact that a boy quit (my den or others) seems to resonate through the whole group with lightening speed. Nothing like that happens when they get to do something really great. As for this boy, its interesting that this seems to have turned into a referendum on his behavior. His behavior has nothing to do with it. In fact hes a good kid, hes not his brother but he is a good kid. The boy quit, for the second or third time, and Im not comfortable with extending the privilege of allowing him to attend the trip. Since the end of May we have had three Pack outings, 5 den meetings, a parent-cub weekend at camp, a week at day camp, a week at resident camp, and a family camp weekend. This boy has been missing in action right along the way and even prior to May he was MIA. Not only that, but his parents have not responded to any of the planning / informational emails that accompanied each of the events. And, AND, the parents have told us that he will not be returning. The non-refundable deposit is a non issue as far as Im concerned. It was clearly communicated! Bob, if I cared what others might say, I would simply roll over and let him go. Its about the integrity of our program. Im not here putting on a program for the quitters to take advantage of. I'm not in the business of creating special experiences and memories for the boys or families that have already quit. My interest, my time, my energies are directed toward the boys that are in the program, and not those that have left the program and might feel some perverse desire to take advantage of its special opportunities simply because they can. If they quit afterward, well thats life. Timing, its always about timing. I dont believe for one second that any of the posters here would expect to participate on this trip after having quit the unit. Most of you would simply assume that youd not be welcome regardless of your registration status. The lesson here is that there is no free meal.

I do Ed's thing, the sign stays up for as long as it takes to have the boys quiet down. One of the first times I did it the boys got the message reletively quickly. They all quieted down, but the parents just continued on. I quietly had the boys come to the front for the room and asked them to quietly go tell their parents that the sign was up. There were a lot of red faces in the room that night.

Yellow are Wolves Blue are Bears Green are Webelos

There are a few things going on here. First, recognize that Council has the ability to be flexible in situations like this and will strive to support the parents wishes. Second, he is young. This year's Wolf leader will probably have a program that is different than the program that the outgoing Wolf leader put on. The kids will be different, and the parents will be different. But they will be the kids that he will now go to school with for the rest of his scholastic carrier. Third, most likely he has proven to be just a little too immature for the older group of kids. Because of his age this might be the only structured activity that allows him to be with his classmates. Baseball, soccer, football.etc. will all go by his age not his grade. If your community is like mine, the age groups wont begin to come together until the boy is 10-13 years old depending on the sport. I am usually very sensitive to the boys potential for being bored at den meetings if they are doing the same things for the second or third time, but in this case, because hes young, I would give serious thought to having him do the Wolf year again. Dont forget he can always become king of the arrow points. At the other end of the CS scale, we had a boy who should have aged out of CS. He redid a year of school and was older than all the other boys. Council did hold up the charter until the age thing was cleared up, but it never became a problem. Of course, it all depends on the parents, and the boy. Make sure that the parents look at the whole picture. Good Luck (This message has been edited by fotoscout)

Shy of the US Mail, I think backpack mail in the elementary schools is a very effective way of communicating with the target audience. Most parents go through their childs backpack with a fine tooth comb. In our elementary schools the kids have take home folders. Everything that needs to be communicated to the parents is placed in this folder. That includes school work and community related things like soccer and scouts. It has proven to be both efficient and effective.

Actually a charter can run for any period. Imagine if you will, a Council with 12 Districts. The Council staff would be woefully inadequate to process all those Charters at the same time. So, Charters are staggered within the Council, some from Jan-Jan, some from March-March, etc. etc. Heres the really ironic part of this whole thing. Last year we were a Sept. charter, but Council wanted to change us to a December charter. Instead of having a 12 month charter we had a 15 month charter. In our benevolence, we opted not to make things really confusing, and collected our pack fees based on a 12 month charter. The Pack laid out the difference, which was not a lot of money. If you followed that, you will realize that an argument could be made that his paid membership has expired, and that he is now on our time.

ScoutNut, The answer is absolutely yes! In addition, we went to great lengths in communicating the non-refundable aspect of the deposit when the trip was planned. As for selling the slots to other people, we have already begun that, and it appears that we do have takers. This means that the refund will in all likelyhood be retuned

It took me a minute to figure out what a PITA is. I never said he was a PITA. I said that we have worked very hard with this boy in an effort to keep him in scouting. He has had more than his share of special attention already, the time for that has passed; there is no purpose in extending that effort into this trip. Scoutldr, the CS year begins in September with school night or roundup or whatever you want to call it. Monies are exchanged, new programs are started, and we all move off together, in September. Battleship Cove is a very popular program in this area. Deposits for this trip were taken in October-November 2003. That is why they are non-refundable! And by the way the deposits are non refundable from Battleship Cove Inc. We are not the ones keeping the money. (This message has been edited by fotoscout)

As most of you know, I live in New York. Not all that far from Downtown Manhattan, actually not far from Sylvia. On that day I was in Memphis visiting a terminally ill friend. On that day he was still able to comprehend what had happened. The nurses entered the room and told us to turn on the TV. As we did, the second plane hit. My friend had a sense of clarity that he hadnt had in recent days and would not have again. The nurses all looked at me, they knew I was from NY, a bad week just got worse. My wife and son were home in NY. Her store closed, but they kept the kids in school for the day. My wife tried to call me but the lines were all busy. She got home and turned on the TV. Nothing. We had a roof antenna, no cable, no satellite. The broadcast signal came from the transmitter atop the WTC. She was very upset and went to the neighbors. Around dinner time I finally got in touch with her. It wasnt a good conversation. The nurses all wanted to adopt me. It was Tuesday and I was scheduled to go home on Wednesday. We all knew that that was not going to happen. Never have so many women offered to do my wash. Memphis came alive. Almost instantly a radio station set up a collection point not far from the hospital. They didnt know what they were collecting, but if you brought it to them they would get to NYC. They needed to do something, anything. This very big land of ours became very small, very quickly. So there I sat for the next four days, with a dying friend and wall to wall news coverage of this horrific event. On Saturday I finally got a flight out of Memphis. While waiting for the plane to depart I sat with my back to the TV. The trip home was complicated, even for this very experienced traveler. My car was at LaGuardia, but the closest I could get was Newark. As the plane flew into Newark, everyone shifted to the right side of the aircraft, even the flight crew! Smoke was still rising from the site. I took a cab through fortress NY enroute to LaGuardia. It was about three in the morning, nothing was moving except a few Humvees. I had the Long Island Expressway all to myself on the way home. I got home hugged my wife who hadnt slept in days and went to sleep. The phone rang, my friend had died. Everyone here knows people who suffered a loss that day. We lost no family members. In my sons school two of children lost their fathers. One of those children was a Scout in our Pack.

Maybe you need to facilitate a three way discussion with the boy, his mom and/or dad and yourself. Its one thing to hear it from you, if youre blue, but it's another thing to hear it from another green person. I think the message will come through with greater clarity when it comes from another green person.

small and mean spirited If took me a minute to calm down before I responded to this one. No, there is nothing small or mean spirited about this at all. Its all about the message we send to the boys, the ones that will be going, and the one that will not be going. Through the afternoon I made a series of phone calls to our committee people (its not really a lot of phone calls), to my surprise they were unanimous in suggesting that the boy not accompany us on the trip. Similarly, they were not inclined to eat the losses and refund the non-refundable deposit.

I can attest to the fact that there are not too many Buffalos. I really, really dislike doing a solo.

Thank you for confirming my dilemma. The kid has been on the fence for at least the last year. At one time the boy literally got the hat off my head, at another time he got the slide off my neckerchief. Weve worked with this boy for a long time. I am beyond thinking of it as a last attempt to keep the boy. All it would do is prolong the inevitable. As far as putting more time in with this boy is concerned, been there-done that, is my response. The real shame here is this; Dad has great memories of BSs and a desire for Son#2 to be in Cub Scouts. But the only thing that Dad does with Son#2 is watch football. When the season is over he watches reruns. Son#1 is a on the road to becoming a 13 year old Eagle Scout, and is quite the scholar. He is self motivated, more mature than his years would indicate and very quiet. The polar opposite of Son#2! Son#2 has a twin sister who is, well, daddys little girl. So yes, the Quitting Badge may very well be a call for attention, but its not my attention that hes seeking. Shy of moving in with my family this boy has gotten all the attention he can possibly get from me. Eamonn It was clearly stated that the deposit was non refundable, we even had the parent sign that they understood the policy! I am not inclined to eat anything when it comes to this kind of thing, and my thoughts would not have gone in that direction. I will bring the idea to the committee. As for being the bad guy, someone is always the fall guy in a situation like this. It may as well be me. Thanks Guys.

Big Dilemma !! I have a big dilemma, in mid October we will be going to Battleship Cove, non refundable deposits have already been collected. One of my Cubs and his dad are signed up to go with the rest of group. However, this boy, and his parents, made it known that he would not be returning to cub Scouts in September. All of the kids and most of the other parents are aware of this. Sometimes I think the boys wear their Quitting badge more proudly than the badges that they have earned. Our charter is up in December, so technically this boy is still registered until December. So here is my dilemma, I think it sends the wrong message to allow this boy to come on the trip at this time. All of the boys and families going are committed to another year of Scouting. This kind of trip is one of benefits and privileges of being a CS, I am very uncomfortable with the thought of letting this boy and his dad come with us. I can already hear the chours of "how come Mikey is here, he's not a CS anymore!" It is a pack trip, not a community trip for anyone that wants to pay and go. What would you do??? Foto Battlehip Cove is an overnight trip to the Battleship USS Massachussetts.

In an effort to avoid the problem your Board of Ed. had, our Board of Ed. (actually the Superintendent) screens everything that any group wants to send home via the schools. If its turns out to be inappropriate for a public school to send home then it doesnt go. You might want to suggest this type of screening to the BOE. Our BOE does routinely turn down many requests to use the schools for dissemination of flyers from all sorts of groups. The down side of this is that it adds another week or two to the process of getting something like a recruiting flyer to the kids. Just a suggestion.

Hi Hunt, Im at a loss for an inexpensive way out of this problem. Maybe you could get your CO to purchase a mailing list for your community, and then mail a flyer to all the homes. Very inefficient and costly! You could always put up big roadside signs, (like campaign signs) throughout your area. Backpack mail is the bread and butter of school night in this area. If this becomes a trend it could become very troubling. I would be interested in hearing why your Board of Ed. stopped you from doing this.

The uniform guide shows both, the trained patch and the arrowhead. However, if you wear a size medium short sleeve shirt (thats me), and you place your patches as instructed by the uniform guide, there is no place for the arrowhead. It just doesnt work; even the trained patch is not in the right position.

I continue to think that one of the things we dont do very well is to communicate and reach out to new leaders. We seem to have convinced ourselves that the CCs, MCs , DLs, CMs, ASMs, & SMs all promote the program to their new leaders. Personally I dont think this happens. Many new leaders are left out in the cold to sink or swim by their own merits. My suggestion, and this has worked for me, is to pick up the phone and make a personal invitation to your new leaders to come to training.

Hi Laurie, Do you have a situation with competing Packs where fellow Scouters are telling parents to stay away from your Pack because most of the leadership is female, while suggesting that people go to the other Pack because the leadership is male.?

Im not a student of politics, nor do I know anything of political strategy. However, those of us in the NY area are sure getting a dose of it this week

Here's the secret to great coffee on the trail.... Big Stove Bigger Stainless Steel Perculator Bigfoot to carry the load. foto.

What part of the Scout Oath is male specific? The simple fact here is that there are not enough men willing to step up and become involved in Scouting anymore. If you want your programs to continue and thrive, you are going to have to accept women in leadership positions within Scouting. Just look around, in this area many (sometimes most) of the District and Council Committees are filled with women. Our Council Programs Chair is female as are both our CS & Scout RT Comm. We have female Scoutmasters, and Cubmasters as well as a whole slew of ASM's. Why, because there are jobs to done and they are stepping up to do them. Fully 1/3 of our WB Staff is female. So like it or leave it, todays' reality is that you'll have to embrace it if you want your programs to continue as they are today. (This message has been edited by fotoscout)

Yes Eamonn you are correct, more coaching and some instructing, not mentoring in a general sense. Even in WB, mentoring is discussed in terms of taking your expertise and passing it on to the team. It was task specific, and not applicable to all. I might go so far as to say that a good merit badge counselor could be considered a mentor to a boy who shows exceptional interest in the subject. However, I continue to think that for the purpose of this discussion, male leaders do not function as mentors to the boys any more that female leaders do. Even within the ranks of Scouting it takes a very special person to be mentor. Everyone is not a mentor. Most rank and file leaders in BSA will never truly be become mentors to anyone.