fotoscout

I would think that with this approach you have great difficulties getting your kids into the uniform. As BW is so fond of saying, the uniform is one of the methods of Scouting, to do that the boys need to wear the uniform more than twice a year. AND, the parents need to think of the uniform as a part of the boys participation in scouting. Sure its a $100.00 getup, but so are the sneakers and game boys that these kids strut around with all day, everyday. The uniform isnt precious, its special. Its special because its the single stand out item that puts the exclamation point on everything we do as scouts. Go to firehouse in street clothes and its just a trip to the fire house, go to the fire house in a CS uniform and the boys will remember it as a CS outing. The same goes for everything we do. The uniform is the signature that puts an indelible BSA mark on everything we do. As for considering the uniform as a Parade item, think about this: With the exception of July 4th and Memorial Day, most parade opportunities occur when a jacket is needed. The uniform isnt even visible. Then theres the July 4th argument that its too hot to wear the uniform, lets wear class Bs sez the parents.and the leader bow's to the pressure. I really think that this is about the leaders failing to lead. We are a uniformed organization, we are expected to be in uniform (not mandated but expected) and that means that the leaders have to take a position and promote it. It easier to say, Forget about the uniform its not important, than it is to say, what can we do to get little Johnny into a uniform. And by the way, for all of you who remember Costume Boy, he was the first one of my kids into the new Webelos uniform.

Yes instruct. This is not one where the democratic process rules. We either will, or will not wear the uniform. We do not allow it to become a topic of discussion. With the exception of camping trips, we do everything in uniform. Even then our boys and leaders are instructed to bring their uniform for dinner, campfire, and Scouts Own. The committee decides and thats the way it is. Weve not had a single uniform piece go missing on any of our outings. Sometimes they go home with the wrong person but they are always accounted for. As I noted above, I dont advocate going camping or engaging in any other rigorous outdoors activity with the uniform, but this is museum. The chances of damaging a uniform are no greater than at Pack night, probably lower..

I am curious, how many of you instruct your cubs to wear their uniforms on trip s like this one? For those of you that dont, why not?

I certainly understand business trips.....been there, done that, too often. And I dont' really mean to imply that they should spend two weeks in a tent, in northern Maine in mid October. But we do have some outstanding camp facilities throughout the country. Some of these facilities rival a mid range hotel or conference center. I just think that there is a better way to do this. Although if national is paying the way maybe I should say, "Who cares!" or "So What On the other hand, maybe if there was some discomfort associated with the training, they would get the idea to present the training in a efficient manner and let the participants go home sooner than later. Much of the overnight training/seminars that I've done with BSA could have been completed in less time. Sure I enjoy sitting around with other leaders trading war stories, but I'd rather be home with my wife and son.

I am still learning about just what it is that the DE does all day. So far I have figured this much out: 1) They have a thankless job 2) They work too many hours 3) They dont get paid enough 4) They do what no one else wants to do 4) Im not sure that even they know what it is that theyre supposed to be doing and 5) They are the glue that keeps the program moving ahead in spite of all the big egos, loudmouths, and other competing interests that we volunteers have. Having said that Ill continue.. We have a new DE, you all know the kind, a very nice young man right out of college. Hes been here for about four months now, and its time for him to go to training. So we send him to training. Two weeks in Irving, TX. Paid transportation, and two weeks of meals and lodging in a hotel. Granted this is a business trip for him, but I come from the school that says: Dont ask anyone to do anything that you wouldnt do yourself. They certainly dont ask us to stay in hotels. So then why is it that our financially challenged Council has to foot the bill for all of this? When we go to training, I pay my own way, and I sleep in whatever accommodations are provided, ie; cabin or tent. This time of year BSA has dozens of camps with wonderful cabins available and waiting for any customers. So why arent these facilities being used? Why are we being asked to shell out big bucks for a guy whose personal agenda will be tailored to getting out of our council?

By the shear number of cubs that were not in uniform I would have to say that this had nothing to do with the cost of uniforms. I happen to think that this is a training issue.

When you force someone to perform an act that is against his will, just to retrieve something that is his to start with, it is abusive. In addition, this behavior is not a harbinger of Scoutlike behavior. There is nothing positive or educational about it for the boys who does not want to perform for your enjoyment! That my friend is something so simple that even a true anarchist could understand.

Singing for a lost item is like forcing that very timid and shy CS to perform in a skit. Some kids like it and some dont. If the boy is afraid and embarrassed by it, then he his humiliated and we cant be involved with that kind of stuff. The issue here is about forcing the boy to do it, not about the act of singing for a lost item. Some boys love the stage may thrive on this kind of thing; others however are petrified and will not do it regardless of whats at stake. To force that child is hazing at the very least and abusive at its worst.

Two weekends ago we went to Battleship Cove for an overnighter. The instruction to our pack was that all of the boys should be in uniform: while traveling, while on the ship and then next day while traveling home. Not very complicated or difficult, and with almost no exceptions our boys and leaders were properly uniformed. I was astounded to see that our boys were the only cubs in uniform. We were 50 out of probably 450 CS on the ship that weekend. There were some other leaders in uniform but no cubs and there was a BS Troop who changed into their uniforms for dinner. So whats with these people? Ive seen this before on CS overnighters. I just dont get it. The boys have uniforms to wear, not to hang in the closet.

I give you an A for ambition. Its mid October and youre taking a group of rookies to Philmont in just 9 (or so) months. You have a lot of work ahead of you. I suspect that you are at a loss, since there seems to be no backpacking experience in the Troop. So youll have to go by the recommendations of other people. Here is my suggestions. Follow the 4000/4800 cu in suggestions. Take the troop, and their parents, to a sporting goods store that has knowledgeable backpackers on staff. Get the boys fitted and educate the parents in the process. Price is not, should not be the deciding factor when purchasing a backpack. Since your boys are probably still growing, buy packs that are expandable with respect to fit. That leaves you with only the external frame packs option. Get this over with in a hurry! Dont let the parents wait for the holidays! Dont play games with your local shop owner by having your boys go into the store one at a time, then go home and shop the internet for price. Take all the boys at the same time and negotiate with the shop owner. You are going to need this guy in the next few months don't piss him off. The backpack is only one piece of the outfit. You still have a long way to go..and its already October.

I seem to remember something like those dates published in the nationally distributed BSA literature.

The rules are what they are, and, you have responsibilities with your son and the pack. You cannot take this boy. Esspecially since he has the potential to be a high maintanence kid. Additionally, arent there restrictions on Cub Scout overnights? I cant find the dates, but something tells me that CS can not camp overnight from Oct. 15- April 1. Can someone check this?

absolutly yes You shouldn't even have to ask the question!

We dont do permission slips for local outings like this. Our Cubs only do permission slips for out of district/council outings or overnight events. As for who is marching in the parade, an adult must be with the Tigers. The adult doesnt necessarily have to walk with the Tiger, but should be within shouting distance. The Tigers will need a lot of coaxing to make it down the road without swerving off course or slowing down to a crawl. Typically the parents parallel the kids by walking along the curb while the kids are in the middle of the road with the den leaders. Just like any other activity, parents are a must for the Tigers. It was nice when we had little orange shirts for the Tigers and big orange shirts for the adults, then everybody marched and it looked cool!!

On the flip side, it would be very nice to have the CO step forward and ask for control of our money. Thats one less committee position that we would have to fill, AND, its a great way to get the CO involved with your pack.

Your Camp committee job shouldnt include becoming Cub Scout Day Camp Director. Youll be involved with promotion the Day Camp, budgets, and possibly with the site selection(s). But, the Day Camp Directors job is a separate job. When you get the Camp Committee Brochures, one of the first things you should notice is that it takes a lot of people to make the committee work. Start thinking about people who can help you, and support your efforts in doing a good job.

I am also wondering what a CA is? My den meets weekly on Tuesdays. Our Pack meetings are the third Friday of the month. We do have den meetings on the week when the pack meetings occur. Without question, the weekly den meeting is the way to go. The boys bond better, and if they have somewhere else to be on a particular Tuesday, they wont miss that much. It gives us more time to play and do fun things, as opposed to working on achievements all the time. It also allows you to take more time in doing your achievements. I also think that attendance is better with the weekly meetings. We do our weekly meetings from September to June. Although our Pack has a pretty lame summer schedule the den has a pretty active summer schedule with time at day camp & resident camp, and pool party's. The other benefit is that for the scatter brained parents, they know that if its Tuesday ..its Cub Scouts. As Tigers and Wolves we did meetings every other week. Even with the calendar I published, 3 or 4 parents would call me every Tuesday with the question, Is there a meeting today?.

No Bob, not at all. I suggest that you go back and reread my posts with a more open mind. As for the professional and salaries, this is not an original thought on my part. I'm just echoing something that I've heard quite a few times in the last few weeks.

I agree that paper doesn't work, at least not as a single shot. Did you ever here about the rule of 3&7? People need to hear things 3 times before they begin to listen; then, they need to hear it 7 more times before they'll take any actions on what they've heard. That's todays world. I email everything!! And I follow it up with reminders. Still, I often hear, "I didn't know about that outing". Some people are just not wired to listen.

They are owned by Councils, not mine. They are not private camps. I suspect your comment about the mouse refers to Disney World. I am not familiar with any other property in that part of the country run by a mouse. Lets just say that I don't think any Scout Camp is challenged by Disney World. $200.00 per week vs. $1000.00 dollars per week put them in different competitive brackets. Bob, you seem have missed the point entirely. Perhaps you're in a part of the country that has not experienced this problem. Maybe soon these camps will be supplying free transportation from your area. Then you'll understand the issue. I don't expect anyone to lower the quality of their program. It's terrific that they have been able to build these programs. But the bigger issue is the local camps. And yes I would expect someone to come forward and put their job on the line to support the basic premise that Scouting is a community based program. By a policy of avoidance, the regional and maybe national people have watched these big camps devour the smaller local camps. So do I expect the large camps to anything about it, NO! What I would like to see is for an instruction to be issued to these camps identifying a cap on the number of out of council scouts that they can host each year.

BW, Check your privite messeges. Foto

Im really glad to see this thread competing with the homosexual issue. Focus, focus, focus!

I'll finish for Scoutnut, that's the Unit Commissioners job. In this case it sounds like all the UC needs to do is to cordially, get the Pack people and the Troop people together. Sure the District Committee should be aware of whats going on, but its the Commissioners job to make it right, or suggest that the unit fold. The difficulties here are obvious. How good is the UC? Will other commissioners support the UC if needed? etc. etc.

Yes No BW, I think your question highlights magnitude of what I'm talking about. These are Scout camps, but not like any camp that most people are familiar with.

Yes, I guess that it's relative. I am talking about camps that do 5000-6000 (or maybe more) per summer with an 8 week program. In one case where the majority of campers come from out of council. We have two of these each about 300 miles either side of our own in council camp. They are camp machines, churning kids in and out by the thousands. Pristine, and maintained like an exclusive private club. I don't mean to imply that they are bad camps, if fact I'm sure that the program is very good. But it is undeniable that these camps and camps like them are having a huge and ongoing detrimental affect on the local camps. Eamonn, you are correct about the personal nature of the local camp and yes it is something that we use to the best of our advantage. No, I am not scheduled to go to Bedford in November. I continue to wonder about the future of the local camp as these camp machines roll on doing havoc on enrollment in the local summer camp programs. (This message has been edited by fotoscout)