firstpusk

Rooster, the comments about self-esteem appended to your recent apology were a bit mean-spirited. May I suggest that if you are going to make an apology, make it genuine or just skip it all together. He was right to call you on the earlier remark. You should have been man enough to recognize your error and offer a heartfelt apology.

I agree that perspective is important. However, there are a couple of points to consider. 1) It was the Bush administration that used the end of human rights abuses as the justification for the invasion of Iraq. As the other justifications, the bloom is off the rose. No evidence of stockpiles of WMD. No signifcant program activities. No connection with Al-Qaeda. 2) Some reports I have heard and seen indicate that there are some deaths that are being investigated. Twenty-five deaths of prisoners have occurred in Afganistan and Iraq. So far at least two have been ruled homocides.

"So you think that the President should spend his time watching CNN? That's a productive use of his time." No. 'Where in the World Is Carmen Miranda?' would be much more appropriate.

"You are all Deer staring into the headlights. DOH!!!!! You all make me wonder if your Scouters, or politicians. But in any event, it is clear Scouting is far from your agenda. ASM1" Just stay out of the left lane...especially when I'm behind you driving my Mortifier. ;^)

But is it OK?

"And if Ranchers in Oklahoma made a pale yellow cheese it would be called cheso Oklahoma." Wouldn't it be cheso OK?

As someone also raised in Minnesota, I would say it is a cow's milk cheese referred to as asadero in Mexico. It is a good melting cheese so it will often be substituted with Monterey Jack or even (gasp) Mozzerella.

I have made a few pop can stoves. I give them to deserving scouts and scouters as a recognition. They are light weight, quick to set up and use and cool down in a NY minute. If I only have coffee, I like to use my pepsi can stove.

Of the MSR products I still prefer my Dragonfly. Yes, it is loud but it heats water very quickly. It has a second adjustment on the flame that actually allows you to cook and not just burn your food. I can cook just as I do on the stove top at home. It is truly a great backpacking stove. The only other stove I would consider buying for personal use is an Optimus.

I like BW's idea, also. I would only add that a portion of the ashes be saved to add to the next campfire. I always liked that ritual that embraces the idea that scouting and the campfire that is central to its values continues on long beyond any one of us. We lost a relatively young SM in our council last week. He was a staffer on JLTC again this year. Last night was the visitation. Although I did not know him as well as I may have liked, we shared the experience of being an adult staff member. He loved to teach knots and ropework. There is a knot that he wanted me to teach him. He watched me tie this complicated multi-strand knot. That opportunity slipped past both of us - too bad. The youth can take it hard. Coming to grips with death is an important part of growing up. Each boy will deal with it differently. Several scouts were at the visitation last night. I was glad that I was able to talk with them and offer support, kind words and a couple of laughs. Consider the services of a grief counselor. A scoutmaster is a terribly significant person in the life of a boy.

"Rude? Maybe. Obscene? When?" Come now FOG, I am sure that you must violate "prevailing community standards" somewhere in this great land of ours... ;^)

Hoppy, I would never begrudge second helpings. I was just worried that MrsSmith came back to camp and we had nothing left for her...although she may have had her fill. ;^)

Shhh! I think she's still here! I hope you guys didn't eat everything.

OUCH! Sorry to correct you pack, but I believe we have been thoroughly switched, not spanked. She said that she did not believe in scourging and it was not quite that rough. I had mentioned flogging as a possibility for FOG, but she said no to that. It had to be a good switching she gave all of us oldtimers. Pack, I think we need to have a little sit down when the pain subsides. I am very concerned that you might have enjoyed that switching. ;^) Trail-I think we need to offer one heck of a lot more than a moment of silence. I think we need a full-fledged virtual scoutmaster prayer breakfast for that poor devil. Let's see corned beef hash, fried eggs, bacon, sausage, flap jacks, biscuits and gravy and of course wood badge coffee. I don't know if it will help him, but we will be able to nap effectively after that feast.

"I prefer to occasionally shake my head over someone's post than to banish them. My opinion only. KS" Oh, come on. A good banishment following a nice 'turn' on the rack just seems brightens up the old board. Not to mention a good flogging now and again. Where is my cat o' nine tails when I need it? ;^)

This is a good example of why good communication is critical between the unit and the chartering organization. I have seen situations where the old partner allows the unit to take equipment with them. However, it has always been when there is a mutual agreement that the unit needs to move on, i.e., the space is not adequate for a growing troop. In your situation, the equipment is gone. It was never owned by the boys and the parents. Sometimes, this challenge can be an opportunity to strip scouting down to its essentials. Everyone has a chance to build a new unit with a culture that truly embraces the best that scouting can be - and that is not about the biggest troop trailer stuffed with high buck gear.

FOG, there are a number of pusks. I am first because I begot them. The question you can't find is crux of the issue on this thread. You provided two examples of fathers and child support. One refused to pay because he felt the mother did not need the money. The other paid but did not involve himself with his son in a significant way. I said neither father should be considered for the role of scoutmaster. The instance raised at the start of the thread is whether a man who does not pay court ordered support and brags about it to a scout should have the role of scoutmaster. It seems everyone agrees that if both parts of the story is true, the troop should seek someone else as scoutmaster. You now want to impugn the character of George Washington, Rosa Parks and insist on an uprising in the District of Columbia. By the way, the District of Columbia does have a representative in Congress - Eleanor Holmes-Norton. I don't think the situation between DC residents and the revolutionaries is comparible. I am using the scout law to help make the correct decision. It is not foolproof, as shown by your posts. But if not applied foolishly, with disgression it works well. Your friend thinks he is fighting injustice. I don't see it that way. He decided not to fight at the time of his divorce. His poor choice cost him a judgement he now finds unfair. He ignored counsel's advice, but it was his decision. If he fails to pay and brags about not paying that judgement to a scout, I would think a troop could do better than him for scoutmaster. End of discussion.

As I said before, your silence on my points means you accept that the two dads would not make good scout leaders. The other examples of George Washington, Rosa Parks and resistance scouts and scouters have nothing to do with the original issue. There must be no recourse to justify for taking up arms or using civil disobedience against established authority. Your two dads had recourse. To compare their situation to the historical examples trivializes truly brave individuals. George Washington had no recourse. Neither did Rosa Parks or the scouts that fought the Nazis. As I recall, the crown tax Americans without representation, housed troops in private homes and refused to consider grevences. Blacks in most of the south did not have the right to vote. The scouts and scouters had their representative government taken away and replace by a military regime of a foreign power. Your examples have nothing to do with the intitial issue. You seem to have a talent for raising inflamitory non sequiturs in order to confuse the issue.

FOG, your ability to shift away from the initial issue is amazing. Since you did not disagree with my statement, you must agree that neither of these dads makes a fit scoutmaster. Thank you for being so agreeable. The examples you give are red herrings, but I will respond because I think you confuse the issue. Rosa Parks is a hero of non-violence. She stood up for removing an injustice and was willing to pay the price for her courage. The resistance to the Nazis was also courageous and admirable. Many of these young men paid with their lives. We owe them a debt of gratitude. Both would have made great scout leaders. George Washington would have been fine also. People are sometimes called on to do great things and take great risks. These folks all tried to fight injustice. The examples you gave are of petty men focused on their own money or time above the good of their children.

"I have a friend whose parents were divorced over 40 years ago. Dad paid his child support on time and has met with his son once a year for lunch once a year. My friend has never met his step-mother, step-brothers or even his half-brother. He has never been in his father's house. Who is the better father? The fellow who doesn't write a check because the receipients don't need the money but loves his kids and is involved with them or the father who wrote the monthly check but had little else to do with his son?" Neither father is admirable. And if both guys bragged about their behavior in front of scouts they are not the best choice for scoutmaster. The scoutmaster is an exemplar. Neither of your friend's friend or friend's father would be a good choice to train boy leaders.

Scoutmom "Even if it is $5.00 a week, an obligation is an obligation." Fat Old Guy "If it makes no difference, why bother? " I "ran the law" and got five of twelve (see below). The fact he is willing to run down the need meet obligations in front of a scout is enough for me to say this unit could do better. A Scout is Trustworthy. A Scout tells the truth. He is honest, and he keeps his promises. People can depend on him. A Scout is Loyal. A Scout is true to his family, friends, Scout leaders, school, and nation. A Scout is Helpful. A Scout cares about other people. He willingly volunteers to help others without expecting payment or reward. A Scout is Obedient. A Scout follows the rules of his family, school, and troop. He obeys the laws of his community and country. If he thinks these rules and laws are unfair, he tries to have them changed in an orderly manner rather than disobeying them. A Scout is Thrifty. A Scout works to pay his own way and to help others. He saves for the future. He protects and conserves natural resources. He carefully uses time and property.

The stars are wholly unnecessary. They add nothing to the quality of the forum and any formula for posting them is arbitrary. If someone posts something of value, they usually get a positive response from their comrades. If the quality is poor, well just look at the response that someone got on the lockdown threads.

Eamonn, I assume that your are weaving the rope over some kind of framework. Do you know when UK Scouting Mag had their article? I might be interested in getting a copy of the article.

NJCubScouter, Shakespeare said in one of his plays, "The first thing we do is kill all the lawyers." You are up on that list of firsts. I can understand your frustration, WHEELER. NJ has taken your argument apart. You seem to have a great deal of difficulty appropriately expressing yourself. That does not justify any threat. You are not fit to his shine his tassle loafers. Please go find another board to annoy and on the way, seek competent psychological help. Have a nice day. I will be praying for you.(This message has been edited by firstpusk)

I think this is the best site for ideas on gates and other pioneering projects. http://www.hurricanedistrict.org/pioneering.asp You may need to decipher some of the diagrams. However, with a couple of other good resources, you should be in business. Get the pioneering MB book and the Boy Scout Handbook will be a good start.(This message has been edited by firstpusk)