FireKat

We ask for that and some other misc paperwork we have done for our troop but if the boys forget them we hold the board anyway but don't sign off on the board untill he brings it in, usually the next meeting. The date is still the date of the board. We just hold submitting the paperwork to council. Don't punish the boy for extra requirements. Your rigid schedule is a big problem. See the other thread on rigid BoRs

OK, I admit I have not read the SM Handbook, but why would it contain a schedule for BoRs? That is a committee function and in our committee training we were told to keep that flexable so the boys can advance at their own pace. Scouting should not be focused on advancement. That really makes it sound like school. "Tests will be held x times a year" unlike allowing the boys to learn to evaluate themselves and talk to the proper adults to learn how to evaluate thier progress. We are a small troop too. It has never been a problem to do BoR on request. Even our district AC will hold boards as requested if needed for eagle candidates. There is an EBoR schedule but things happen. You should never hold a boy back on the whim of the adults, that can become a point of appeal. Don't set your troop up for trouble. You can have a schedule but be flexable enough to allow for such situations. Life is full of "jiggering"

To keep the paperwork from being lost between troop and council, submit by internet advancement. We have had too much lost at council. By IA, you enter the info then print the report and drop it off. They even have form for # of awards need & when. Our SM drops report then goes to the Shop & picks up the awards, all on same day.

Personal opinion - holding to a rigid schedule of BOR is dangerous. It can cause appeals as the adults are holding the boys back. When eagle time comes around I have seen some appeals due to this. Boys do not have the timing planned for rigid BOR. I have also noticed that on demand ones keep the adults from having too many to do on the scheduled date. Talk to the committee about being more flexable, it also gets the boys used to requesting things from the adults.

Our Troop does BOR when requested. The boy requests a OR for the following week. If they do more than one rank before a COH, they are presented with all ranks earn. Does your troop only hold BORs before a COH? How often are the COH?

Mafaking, bogus or not,I do not find fault with this thread. Many items discussed are relevant to many people. Remember, there are lurkers who may be afraid to post their troubles, so the read what others do in hopes to find an answer. Zdon't be so quick to judge. I have incountered many of the troubles in this thread and would have been glad to have the help in how to deal with a parent like this before they tried to turn a troop into webelos III just so their kid can get eagle. Also, who says "But a child is not a domesticated beast to be trained" ? If anything, most parents will tell you they are wild animals needing to be domesticated! Makes me wonder if you have any. My oldest got married young, he called me up when first turned 2 to ask when they get out of the 'terrible twos'. I told him that mabe when they are 21. He was only 20 at the time. You can guess at the reaction to that. Kids do need training but it must be done with love.

Aww.. Knothead, you forgot the big one.... getting dirty!

Daddy_O, be honest, whay are you worring about Eagle? That is just part of scouting and a small one at that. Being in scouts is about learning and growing. I cringe when new parents just focus on 'getting eagle' as all they want is a boost in ego, or a bragging point on apps, etc. They don't see what being a scout is about. It is about experencing things, learning to understand more, including about themselves. About how many things affect other things. How to work together; this one usually gets lost on the boys who just want the bragging rights of eagle, and is one that is much needed today. The 'out' in scouting is still important as many young people do not see how the enviroment impacts their lives and future. Sitting in an airconditioned building watching a video is not the same as being there. Lost is the understanding of how to work with nature. Replacing it is Man's ego in thinking that they can control it. If more people went 'out', they might learn how to get along with nature. A good example of this is the flooding of the Mississippi, levys don't stop nature, they just move the damage area. As to illnesses, sometimes I think many are caused by our trying to keep nature out of us. Try some of the suggestions on daeling with them above. Oh, BTW, have you done much camping yourself? If not, give it a try. Also, what is the reason your boy wants to be in scouts? Is it just to get Eagle? or some other reason? BTW our troop in your paperwork stats might come off as an eagle mill but it has not lowered its standards in over 80 years. We have high expectaions of our scouts and they rise to them or decide to stay 'Life for life'; it is the boys' choice, not the paarents.

In reading some of the threads and watching a few good eagle candidates suffer under their helicoper parents, I starte wonder what an outsider can do to help these kids do more on their own. An ideas would help as I am watching it happen again. Some background: I watched a very good scout allow his dad to forceably take over his Eagle project as Dad said that the boys was not doing 'X' right. Son balled up his fists and glared but then shrugged his shoulders and walked away. He then sat back and watched as his Dad ran the whole show. The scout was an excelent scout and very good eagle material but Dad wanted everything perfect. Dad cheated the boy out of the learning experence of solving the diffuculties encountered in any project. Fast forward to now: Another upcomming scout is streching his wings but Dad wants all perfect. Scout gets a POR and as all new scouts, strugles with some parts of the position. When young scout turns to an older scout for help, Dad jumps in to tell son what to do. Again, I see the balling fists and glare, but son allows Dad to take over. This scout has good potential but needs more time to mature. Dad wants him to be one of the youngest eagle for the troop. Dad has also treated Boy Scouts like WebelosIII. Has gotten mad when son did not get a MB for sitting through a short interduction to a MB (as would a cub). Dad has been very active in the troop and a registered leader, he just has not grasped the boy-lead concept, even after a couple of years in the troop. (he still thinks the adults pick the summer camp although the boys have always picked it themselves from a list collected by the committee). I would like a good way to open these parents eyes to the joy of sitting back and watching their boys struggle (and sometimes fail) learning new things. They are missing out on seeing the joy when their boy masters a skill on his own; the interaction of an older scout teaching and helping the newer sccout learn. To me, that is the best thing about Boy Scouts: a change just to saver my sons growing up. Most parents never get to see the changes in their childern as they are too involved in making the changes happen. Scouts has given me the chance to see that magic. I want to share this with those parents that have not has the courage to sit and watch and let things happen. They are missing out on one of the great joys of being a parent. Thanks for any ideas. K

I do a lot of carving. For a general use stick, leave it unstained and finish it with Tung Oil. That is the easest fininsh to repair. If you wish to get fancy, there are many ways to do that, including dyes. Don't make any end 'pointy' bottom should be flat with tapered edges to prevent flare of the bottom during use. I drill a hole into the staff to put a wrist loop on so it does not slide. If you wish for more hints, PM me.

Don't try to snow anyone with BS. If you don't know an answer, just say so and that you will try to find the answer. Protect your scouters form other 'professionals' who will say anything (even wronge things) just to prove that they know more than a 'volunteer'. Be honest and listen. Sometimes the volunteers have been there before. Remember, no one knows everything so keep learning. Don't keep changing a discussion to FOS. Most of us are all tapped out and so our our families. I have been having trouble getting problems solved for boys because the 'professionals' don't want to deal with the boys - just 'when are you going to do FOS?' I need help fixing the problem so the boy has a good scoutting experence. I don't have time to try to do FOS when I need help keeping a boy in scouting. Do NOT make ever talk about FOS.

Point is National should produce a quality product that would last under normal useof adults at minimum. With boys, the shirts get washed at least once a week, if not more. In less than a year the plastic falls off. I encountered the same problem with the logo on the patch blanket - it crumbles off during the time you try to sew on patches. I would hate to see what happens on the first wash.

There are some things the boys like about the new shirts but the drawbacks make them not worth the price. I liked them until I sawthe flag and words. I knew that they would fall off after a few washing as happened to GoldFox. Besides, they look cheap. If Nation goes back to embrodered logo and flag, then we might get new ones. I do not want to have to resew patches on shirts ever so often because the cheap plastic lettering (flag) keeps coming off, even with a lifetime warrenty.

I am a bit abash for posting the email I got without verifying things first. I am usually good at checking facts before spreading such things. At present my husband is dealing with some major health issues which have kept me on the run (he has a second surgery on monday). I got that first thing in the morning from a good source from my district so I thought I would post and see if anyone else knew anything (this has always been a good place to get help on things coming down the pike). I was hoping that during the day things would be figured out. As you see by the time of this post, I have been running all day (I just got home). Well in the late day, while out, I was finally informed that it was a late April Fool's joke. As usual, I fell, hook, line and sinker! I don't mind falling for jokes but I do fell bad if my fast posting without verifying facts got to any one else. Please all, accept my appology for any trouble I might have caused for posting before checking. (hide face in shame)

I just recieved this in an email. Our troop and pack are small. The pack is new so many are still working on basic training, much less Woodbadge. It sounds like we will no longer be able to do much as none can get woodbadge by the deadline. Anyone else in the same shape? Found this on www.scouting.org "BSA will be implementing a new Tour Permit policy as of July 1, 2009. Due to inconsistency between council implementations of Local Tour Permits and the frequent confusion as to when to obtain a Local or National Tour Permit, the Boy Scouts of America will be eliminating the distinction between the National and Local Tour Permits and all Tour Permits will be issued by the Regional offices only. The required signitures will also be changed, as all units, districts and councils will be required to have each signatory fully trained for his or her position for a valid signature. The Unit Leader signing the form must be either Wood Badge for the 21st Century or Powder Horn trained. The Committee member must have current committee member training. All adults particpating in any BSA event must have unexpired appropriate level youth protection training. Therefore, an additional page is being provided to list the names and training expiration dates for all adults for the outing."

sheldonsmom, tell the boys in your area that the scouts around here are very proud of the boys that endured that disaster and how they handled it. They are all shining examples of what scouting is about. We still pray for the families that experenced losses. Peace be with you. (back to the regular thread, sorry for the interruption)

John-in-KC, are you saying that all donations need to go to the chartering org then to the troop or pack? Also the wording that our council said is that we cannot go to anyone and ask for donations, period. Not even through our CO. We are not to ask at all, even if it is offered but we must say how we would use it. We are to tell them to donate it to council.

You brought up an interesting subject. We were told by our council that the boys must earn their mony. We cannot go and ask for donations except for FOS. All donations must go to council but can be designated for our pack. Money is what may be destroying our pack as we do not have any. The parents (and me) are paying for all right now. Some parents belong to other orginizations that wish to help but we must ask for it. Now council says we cannot ask except to collect for council. Has anyone else run into this? How do we develop a pack with no money and few (tigers age) boys? They are a bit young for most fundraisers and it is a long time till popcorn (whole 'nother problem).

Have them carve hiking sticks. Always popular

First - a scout is trustWORTHY and honest. If this scouter is lying about training I would worry about motives for this - YP. Is he trying to gain trust of the boys? Worst case but one all should consider if someone lies about things. Second - Nal't is now requiring dates of some training on all direct contact adults for forms and permits (see tour permits). There is nothing wrong with wanting training record of all your adults for the protection of the boys. Now days if it is not in writing it does not exists. Nat'l has no problem asking for remes of proof before granting extensions to boys so they should provide proof of training to all who get it and those people should provide the proof to their units. Last - what to do with someone who lies for non-threating reasons (ie boost their ego) - that is one good for discussion.

Identifying animals in a museum? Great place to learn what to look for. Then take that knowledge outside and see what you can find. I have not seen a horned lizard (Horney toad to most) in the wild in 20 years. Started to see the signs that they should be on the return so I showed my son what to look for. In the middle of a large city (on a scout reservation) he saw a horned lizard. He called to others who had cameras and they managed to get photos of the lizard. Most doubted him until he showed them. He had learned to watch for the correct environment and signs to find this elusive critter. This is what the requirement is trying to teach: how not to miss something rare and enjoying the thril of find it. (Luck him! I am still hoping to see one again soon.)

oh, well, I guess since we cannot trust the scouters to know when to wear uniforms we should just contnue to let the public continue beliving that the BSA no longer exists. If the uniform is only used on BSA functions the general public doesn't see them. They cannot wear them doing a good dead without the lawyers' months of debat for pre-approval, the good dead is gone. What happened to trusting the scouters to do what is right? Does everything need a lawyer's stamp of approval?

Music is a noble vocation. Band trips to theme parks are not. They are not raising he money to by instuments but to go party vs someone who lost everything thru a disaster. Apples and oranges. Doing what is morally correct vs self gratification. Is that not what scouting tries to teach? A true scout would know the difference and the approprate times to wear the uniform - not to just increase sales but to show support to someone else that is helping people. If they do not know the difference, we adults have done a poor job of spreading the scouting sprit.

Don't even go there! Having kids get money for a group that gets most of it's funding from taxpayers has been a major thorn. What taxes support the Salvation Army? Who benifits from the monies raised? Band trips are a major waste of money for the upper classes as now the poorer kids cannot even aford to be in the band (can't get/rent instruments for the high costs).Only silly people would compare a service org. with a school band - the goals are worlds apart!

Bob, why would you say that allowing the boys to wear the uniform while preforming a service to a well known helpful group be opening the door to more abuse of the uniform? It is good PR for the BSA. Did you try the uniform picture search I suggested? Tilt at the right windmills. BSA needs all the good PR it can get, not hide under a rock for fear of misuse. If people see the uniforms in the correct context more they will then know and speak up more when someone abuses it. Many people think BSA no long exists. See the interview of Scout Exec. Massucia(sp) on his lapel pin. We NEED to be more visable.