FireKat

Don't forget the gummy worms!

No, it is not that obvious unless you have delt with one of those. They are 'glory hounds'.... just in it for what they(or their family) will get. They come in and disrupt your units function sounding like they will do so much but end up doing very little except taking credit for what others do. Cross them and they will do all sorts of things behind your back (like going to council) while smiling at you. My best advice is watch your back (for the knife) and do as others suggested by letting him leave and fail on his own. Gloy hounds fall flat on their faces when they do not have other peoples work to claim. Soon enough othes in scouting will learn that he is unreliable. Just protect those they go after with documentation and the truth.

(Whup...whup...WHUP..WHUP) sound of a helicopter parent getting too close. Your ASM sounds like he is over protecting his son and family. Did I read it right that the wife is now CC for the new crew? Does the son or family have a beef with the boy who was warned? If so maybe they went over your head because they want a different action. We have some of those types in our group. Hard eggs to deal with. see thread on helicpter parents.

Bullmoose, your name is a clue to the answer. Read Teddy Roosevelt (1858-1919, 26th president of the United States). I grew up in forests. My dad was a forester who did not believe in the clear cut ideas. He would carefully cut out timber without destroying everything around the area. Many times you could not really tell that trees had been removed. That allowed the younger trees to mature. Now they run over anything too small to harvest and have to wait for new seedlings to start. Here are a few thoughts I learned running in the forests: Learn to listen to nature, impossible to do if you have your brain plugged in to an iPod. Start seeing the trees in the forest. Not just the forest. Learn ways to live with nature, not try to force it to you. Nature has a bad way of reclaiming what man thinks he can take away from nature. See levees vs. floods. Watch the small things, they will show you wonders. See that it can take years to centuries for nature to heal. Sometimes never. Walk carefully.

Thanks all for the suggestions. I knew when I had kids I would probably be a bit over protective (read, helicopter) so I trained myself to stop and let my boys mess up. When it came to some of their activities where I might try to interfer I took my camera. Instead of trying to fix it I took photos of them learning. I ended up with some great pictures of them. The camera kept me feeling like I was part of their experences without interfearing. Besides, they now have photos they can show to their friends and laugh over. Our scoutmaster does a great end of year photo presentation of different things using these types of photos. The boys and the families all enjoy seeing how they grew over the year. He also does this for ECoHs. It is great watching how the boy grew in scouting. I try to encourage parents to get behind the camera and learn to watch the boys grow. Candid photos mean so much more than the posed photo and make the best montages.

Thanks for the concern but my son is not in a rush so it is just an inconvence. I am more concerned with the 17yo that might be comming up soon. There is a bit of discussion on net meeting types of BoRs. If things continue we might go to that. As far as the flu, as in the 1918 one, it is usually secondary infections which kill, not the flu its self. We do have other things running around here like whooping cough. With that andthings like MRSA, I do not think trying to control the flu is going overboard. I am not in a panic over it but we are reducing group activites. (Edit for clarity)(This message has been edited by firekat)

I don't know where you are at but we are in the affected county in Texas. Unfortunatly, it is not hype. Many things are being cancled, including my son's eagle project review board. Start making alternate plans now as this may be around for a bit.

Hmmm.... THis brings up a few questions. Why did so mony line up for riding with one leader and not dividing up between the drivers? Was it the boy or the leader causing one boy to be singled out? How does two deep leadership cover a single adult with one scout that is not related in one car?

Simple answers: yes and no. A unit is a pack, troop, or crew. Dens and patrols are not units but pieces of a unit

My sour point is trying to get kids into scouting from a poorer area where, for some unknown reason, has thought Boys Scouts no longer exist. Even at Tiger age we compete with gangs. Many have no real idea what scouting is about. If the parents truly understood scouting, they will then work on finding the money but as scouting had retreated into the shadows, they don't understand it. Boy Scouts are so rarely see in uniform, doing good things (like bell ringing). Something needs to be done to let average people know about scouting, then more money will come. I wonder about y'all's cost/boy numbers. You are saying about $20 but councils' say about $150-200 a boy. Why such differences?

You are on the manicured planet where $100 is no big deal, not in the dirt with the average laborer who struggles for weeks to months to squeeze that much money out of their paycheck to paycheck life. (Not a personal attck on you E. I value your opinion a lot. this is a real sour point for me) Ok. So you charge families $100 to $500 to get their kids into scouts. You tell them this at your roundups. How many do you think will sign up? If you live in the rich, gated communities where the CEOs and such live, they might not even blink. If the school is in one of the poor side of town where Mom and maybe a Dad (if they are lucky) work at barely above minimum wage and struggle from month to month to put food on the table, what reaction do you expect? Some of our parents even flinch at the $10 app fee. We have to talk fast about the benefits of being in scouting to make them see the cost is not unreasonable. This usually happens twice as the supply costs also are burdens. Many of the cubs do not get their books for a few months after joining. I looked to council to help with this and just was asked when were we going to do FOS? We are a new pack, struggling to get started. No money to get some of the supplies for the boys. I have been paying out of pocket for many things myself (no I really cannot afford it but want the boys to have a chance) Yes, I have a bad case of sour grapes about funding. Scouting is supposed to be for the boys but the ones that really need it cannot afford it. Then council hit these parents up for FOS? They cannot even affors to send their boys to cub camp at the discounted rate that council offers. The bottom line is: THESE PARENTS HAVE NO EXTRA CASH. As much as they want to let their kids have the experiences, they cannot spend the money need for basics like electricity and food. If council charges fees to be in scouting, most if not all units in our area will fold. How will thst look to the big money donors? 75% of the council units suddenly vanish? Oh, Mr big bucks, we now charge a fee for families to be in scouting to try to stop asking you for money. The drop in #s is just because they are not committed to scouting and your monies will now help more of the upper-middle class kids do more. Forget the poor kids, they are just gang members who are not worth saving. Most of my families do not want to ask for the help that is available now. They were used to paying their way and do not like what the economy has done to them. By all means, institute your fees in place of donations and create your rich kids scouts (or try, as few rich adults around here spend the time volunteering time on the program). I, and many scouters I know will not be there. We also cannot afford it.

I'm thinking of something like $50 -$100 per family... What planet are you on??? Families around here can barily get uniforms or books! Now you want them to pay a fee to council?? My families cannot afford to do the cub camping at council and most of the boys in our troop can't afford summercamp except for our fundraiser (which have dropped due to familiies in our area lossing jobs). If thy do fees it will truly become a rich kids program. Our area is high in hispanics, I thought the point now was to get them in, not keep them out with more fees!

Please! Dont talk about fees! Charging more fees will make more of our scouts vanish! Yes, councils struggle for donations. If they made their expenditures more visable again they might get more. Our council used to post an annual report on their website but they have not done that in years. Why? Instead, they print a flashy, glossy flyer that has no real info, just fluff. Some marketing firm must have gotten in and convinced them that fluff will do more than hard fact and info. Have you seen the New Leaders packet? Absolutely useless. No info to help them be a leader, just a bunch of fluff to recruit leaders. What a waste of money. If a lot of this wastefulness stops maybe they will have enough money to run things. Another problem is our council website. I am not sure but I hears that they paid some company to upgrade it. It is almost useless as the info on the site is outdated many times. Yes, it is different. It is fames with no opt out (I hate frames!). They also forget most people in our area use dial-up. They load too slow. Our council also spends way too much on mailing flyers we get at roundtable. If they fix the website and post those on there they could save a lot of money. Start using common sense and stop wasting money!

I go on some of the campout with the boys, but being married makes it easier as other half is there too mosst times. I have also been on campouts w/o hubby. One was when a sister of one of our scouts wanting to go (this was a river trip). She was of age for venturing but there was none in our area and she also wanted to keep an eye on her brother who was one of our older scouts. He was still recovering from a serious brain injury but wanting to get back to all the fun scouting things. For her to go they asked me to be the buddy of the girl. I also go when one of the other moms would like to go as she has a mild mental handicap. If the female is unmarried or on the youngish side it just makes good sense to have another along. By having another female go along can reduce the 'no women' attitude.

Out of the three voted for, how long do you think they will last? Too many just want to asay they are OA but do not do anything after ordeal. There needs to be a better way to select OA members than a popularity contest of an election. Many times the ones that would do good in OA are not voted for.

I don't know if anyone else has run into this but I am really getting upset with FOS because of it. Every time I talk to a paid pro (with maybe one or 2 exception) about a problem I need fixed for a boy they just change the discussion to FOS. I do not get the help I need for the boy because of this so I try another PP and the same happens. I do not want to discuss FOS when I have a big problem that needs solving. What happened to being for the kids? Professionals reading this: DON'T turn every discussion to FOS! Help us solve the troubles and you will get hasppy scouters who will tell their friends and encourage them to support scouting. Much better than disgruntaled scouters who end up badmouthing pros as money hungery.

Sewing is a lost art. I would rather see them held on by staples than the parents' pins. I have seen packs that think that is the purpose of the pins. I try to treach the boys to do it themse;ves. It is a skill all should learn.

We dont use troopmaster or anything like that. It is priced too high. Tracking the little achievements for rank is not the job of the adults in a boy lead troop. The boys learn how to track and report them to the adults. If something happens to their record they then learn how to fix it. It is part of the growing experience. The adults may help but the boys help each other fix it. The boys do that in a boy lead troop. In an adult lead troop, the small details are watched by the adults (ie troopmaster). Yes, we have boys transfer in and out. On out I tell them to present their book for lower levels (T12) to their SM. On all else, ScoutNet has what Natl has. After I submit an advancement via IA I wait about 1month and recheck it. When you enter things directly on ScoutNet they are in Natls database. Council only must verify. I have not gotten any of this lost in cyberspace. Submitting hard copies to council for them to enter in ScoutNet has gotten things lost. All troops have/can have access to this via a unit ID# and password. This is what Natland the DAC looks at on a scouts advancement, not the book. If your unit does not know how to check this, they need to learn. Another scout in our district had his EBoR delayed (not uncommon) due to dates not matching ScoutNet. They had used Troopmaster report to fill out their app, not ScoutNet data. Verify all dates with ScoutNet.

pack, our board does sign the book (not as requirement but good for the boy's records) The signatures are required on the offical paperwork to council (even if using internet advancement). I have always worried that the boys don't get copies of that paperwork. That is why I give them copies of the IA reports. Then they have a copy of the dates of their BoRs if their books go missing.

If they bring a list of the requirement on a piece of crumpled paper with the proper intials, that is just fine with me. All I want is to see that they did what BSA reqires. Not that they have a book.

Ed, that is irresponsible. If contacts are not reachable, I would not hesitate getting social services involed.

Gunny2862, what is grown up? 'I may be getting older but I refuse to grow up'

As long as the parent/scondary contact can be reached by phone it should not matter where they go. Let the parent have a bit of a break if they want/need. My daughter-in-law can't wait with 4 boys (5.5 if you consider dad)!

Missing/ damaged books have happened. That is when trustworth comes into play. Most of the time the boys and the people who signed their book remember doing it so they go and get the intials redone. date4s are not that critical. In the long run it teaches all to track and backup their info.

Eagle92, your comment on not having things recorded by council is one reason I ended up as AC. Too many things are overlooked by a too busy council. We had boys transfer in from large troops using troopmaster whos dates were all messed up. Some are given ranks even before they were Boy Scouts. Hand writing massive advancements of summer camps and letting council enter them has caused some of the boys MB not to be entered. I print each boy's advancement record from ScoutNet on a regular basis. I give the printouts to the boys and ask them to compaire them to their records. This leaves it to the boy to verify (a learning experince). Any glaring problems I point out to the boy and help him correct. I do this well in advance of the EBoR as I have seen too many eagle apps kicked back due to date troubles. Much better to correct these early than when the boy is 17.5. Councils run slow, a bad date may take months to fix.