fgoodwin

Sorry Neil -- I don't think panicking a Scout for the fun-of-it does a thing to advance character, citizenship or fitness. Humor at a BOR may have its place, but not at the Scout's expense.

Neil, I don't have a problem with asking a Scout to explain one of his patches as an ice-breaker. But I've never tried to "stump" a Scout by asking him something he wouldn't reasonably be expected to learn from the normal advancement program or something in his daily life. If this was a case of an adult trying to show the Scout how much he knows, then extra shame on him.

ASM915 writes:If a scout showed up and informed me that he wanted to watch "Mad Max" or "Clockwork Orange", I sure hope as a MBC I would have a few alternative movies to offer up instead of the scout selected movies.Certainly offering up some alternatives is one approach; another would be to discuss your concerns with the boy's suggestions and ask him to come up with some different suggestions. Repeat the process until you arrive at a mutually acceptable movie title.

HawkUH60, welcome to the Forums. Are you a current or former Blackhawk driver? Anyway, people have complained for years about how expensive the Boy Scout uniforms are. I don't know if making them in China will lower the prices, but even if it doesn't, its possible that making them in China keeps the price from going even higher. If you want them "made in America", be prepared to pay more for them.

kenpen, welcome to the Forums. Since the tester alleges it is an overhand knot, ask him where the Scout was supposed to learn that. If it isn't in the Boy Scout HB, then shame on him for expecting the Scout to know something that isn't covered in the manual.

I believe a COH worksheet is in the Communications MB booklet.

I've never understood why adults get so hung up on collecting a chestful of knots. We are supposed to be in this for the boys, not to see how many knots we can earn and how quickly we can do it by looking for every short-cut under the sun.

I know I've said this before, but I'll say it again: Rather than asking us (its not our MB, after all), why not ask the Scout to propose a few movies, then you and he can discuss his suggestions? Make the Scout do some thinking. As MB counselor, its not your job to do his thinking for him. Just my 2

OGE: that's a great suggestion -- I don't have the GSUSA numbers, but it would certainly be instructive to consider them. Still, I don't think we can ignore the situation of Scouts Canada. Anyone who claims BSA is losing membership as a result of its membership policies would be well advised to consider Scouts Canada, where they are losing members at a faster rate than BSA, yet have a more open membership policy. I'm not saying BSA and Scouts Canada are identical in every way. But just as is the case with GSUSA, it would be instructive to consider the situation in Canada before drawing any firm conclusions.

Neil and pack: I agree that BSA is not Scouts Canada -- there are surely differences between the two programs and the target population beyond the differences in membership policies. But since we don't have two BSAs to compare, comparing BSA to other scout organizations is the best we can do. And until the BSA bashers can explain the situation in Canada, I'm not willing to concede that BSA membership policy is to blame for its membership decline. I think it is very likely a third factor (or factors) that both have in common that explains the decline, not the difference in membership policies.

Gern: Packsaddle: Let's try to look at this logically (if such a thing is possible): If A then B If not A then B There is no way that both of those statements can be true simultaneously. If BSA discriminates, then it loses members If Scouts Canada doesn't discriminate, it loses members (even moreso than BSA) I know those who want to bash BSA like to point to its membership policies as the root of all evil, but no one wants to even consider the counter-example of Scouts Canada. Until someone can explain whats going on in Canada, then as far as I'm concerned, you haven't made a case that BSA membership decline is a result of its membership policies.

Gern writes:The antonym of the Big Tent would be the exclusive private club. One with membership restrictions to keep undesirable people from joining. In my humble opinion, that is exactly what the BSA is engaging in, to their detriment . . . Now wouldn't it be silly for an exclusive private country club with declining membership to be complaining about their declining membership?Without coming out and saying it, you seem to imply that BSA's declining membership numbers results from its membership policies. If that is indeed what you are saying, would you please explain to me how Scout's Canada is losing membership at a greater rate than BSA, yet has a more inclusive membership policy?

Boy Scouts uniform gets first upgrade in nearly 30 years; available in Salinas area http://thecalifornian.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080815/NEWS01/80815027/1002 http://tinyurl.com/6l2d93 Staff report August 15, 2008 The new Boy Scout uniform, available starting today, marks its first redesign since the early 1980s, when Oscar de la Renta was commissioned to provide the existing look. Advertisement There have been five major revisions and some minor tweaks of the uniform since the organization began in 1910. This new centennial uniform is part of many planned activities to celebrate the coming 100th anniversary of the Boy Scouts of America. The Boy Scouts of America turned to its members for inspiration for the design of the centennial uniform. The new look is a representation of thoughts, ideas, and opinions from a committee of Scouts and their parents. [excerpted]

Speaking of progressive: I still haven't heard a good explanation for why Scouts Canada, who have a more "progressive" membership policy than BSA, suffers greater membership losses (%-wise) than BSA. Can someone explain that one to me?

I think its good for BSA to join the 21st century. As for BSA changing its membership policies, I still haven't heard a good explanation for why Scouts Canada, who have a more inclusive membership policy than BSA, suffers greater membership losses (%-wise) than BSA. Can someone explain that one to me?

Eagle92, welcome to the Forums. Bob White did a good job summarizing the three courses. The audience and content are very different, although there is some overlap allowed in teaching parts of IOLS and OLS-WL concurrently. I've taught parts of BALOO and IOLS, and I helped organize a session of OLS-WL; I think an experienced trainer can probably do well in most any segment of the three courses, but as is the case for any course, the more experienced you are in the topic, the better you'll be at presenting the material. I would never suggest teaching a section stone cold w/o any preparation; get the syllabus, review it, and try to practice your presentation before you actually do it. Personally, I like the "Socratic" method, meaning I try not to lecture so much -- I prefer asking leading questions and have the audience respond. It tends to increase participation, and I've found an active learner retains more. If you can have your audience wear name tags, it makes it easier to call on those who are less forthcoming in their participation. Try to make it fun -- especially if you teach a section of BALOO. Oddly enough, Cub Leaders still think the program s/b fun for the boys and don't mind having fun themselves!

ideadoc writes:People make the assumption that because I favor the tradition of local names I also favor not teaching the NYLT syllabus in its totality and in the order it is written. Both of these things are stated as requirements to deliver NYLT and I am not linking having a local name with disregarding the rules.Nor am I. I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I'm certainly not making that assumption about you or any other commenter in this thread. Whether or not you (or anyone else) breaks the rules is up to you to decide. All I'm saying is that the new syllabus (according to the thread I mentioned) says local names will not be allowed in 2009. I also said when I signed to be a trainer, I agreed to teach the syllabus as written. I've said nothing about how anyone's else's interpretation (rationalization?) of those two requirements constitutes either adherence to the rules or breaking of the rules. Again, that's for you to decide -- but at least you know what the rules are. No one (at least no one in this thread) can claim ignorance of the rules as a reason for not following them.

Boy Scouts prepared to launch marketing campaign to connect with digital-era youth http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/city/irving/stories/DN-boyscouts_12met.ART.State.Edition1.4d4d188.html?npc http://tinyurl.com/6gvz9m 11:42 AM CDT on Tuesday, August 12, 2008 By SCOTT FARWELL / The Dallas Morning News sfarwell@dallasnews.com The Irving-based Boy Scouts of America realized something important recently: Kids don't climb trees anymore. They don't hike, or explore muddy riverbanks, or spend lazy summers camping in the back yard. Kids are online, electronically connected, and their time is in digital demand. This morning, the Boy Scouts of America is rolling out a high-bandwidth plan to re-connect with the nation's youth. It's a plan that's already had repercussions: More than 40 employees at the national office lost their jobs last month. "We haven't been very innovative, creative or nimble," said Chief Scout Executive Bob Mazzuca. "It's time to change that, and it's time to re-introduce the American people to the Boy Scouts." The rebirth, he said, begins with marketing. The Boy Scouts will roll out a MySpace-type social network site later this month that will allow Scouts, volunteers and alumni to connect and share stories. There will be advertising perhaps on MTV, YouTube and Facebook that will dust off the 1950s image of the Scouts. With 5 million kids in Scouting programs, the Boy Scouts of America is by far the largest youth program in the world. Even so, membership has been trending down for a decade by as much as 1 percent a year. "This isn't a desperate move on the part of the Boy Scouts," said Mr. Mazzuca. "We're going to survive, but if we want to survive and thrive, we've got to do these things." He said the change has been painful for some Scouting staff members including the more than 40 people who lost their jobs. Mr. Mazzuca describe those jobs as "mostly back office" type positions that will be obsolete when the Scouts move into a more digital form of delivering its message. For example, he said, the group would no longer produce, print, bundle and mail Scout materials to its offices around the nation. Instead, the information would be available online. Mr. Mazzuca said the Scouts would also work to diversify its ranks. The Hispanic population boom in places like Texas and California offer both a challenge and an opportunity. "If we don't figure out those communities all over the Sun Belt and across the country, then we will become a niche organization for the white, middle class," he said. "We want to serve all kids, and that's really what these changes are about."

John: And BSA means "Business Software Alliance" to many folks. I hear what you're saying, but when I signed on as a trainer, I agreed to teach the BSA (Boy Scouts of America) syllabus as written. I don't put my own spin on it, although I will add my own illustrations of points to be made if the syllabus calls for it, or if someone asks a question that can best be answered that way. I would never tell anyone they are doing something "wrong" -- OTOH, the syllabus seems to speak for itself on this particular point. And since the syllabus DOES address this specific point, one wonders how councils will rationalize their way around it? What other councils and trainers do ultimately is up to them -- I'm just pointing out what the new syllabus supposedly says (I haven't seen the new one myself -- I'm relying on the post in the other thread). YMMV

Stelly: I recommend that you get a copy of the Webelos Leader Guide (or HB or whatever its called). It lays out the entire Webelos program for you. Its formatted just like the Program Helps, but is tied to Webelos Activity Badges, rather than monthly themes.

According to this thread, local variations on the NYLT course name are not acceptable in 2009:NYLT Changes in 2009 The National NYLT syllabus must be followed and the course will be known as NYLT. Joint names such as Brownsea NYLT can no longer be used to qualify an NYLT course. (emphasis added) http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=192950

I forgot to add that my local council name for the course is "Cedar Badge" -- they pitch it as a youth version of WB and make no connection to the NYLT syllabus, although that is what they use. I thought the latest syllabus eliminated the option to give the course a local name, even with NYLT appended? Again, I could be mistaken.

I like the idea of a standard name. As far as I know, Woodbadge is called that (or WB21C) in all councils -- I'm not aware of any local variations on WB, but of course I could be mistaken. I never cared for all the "cutesy" names for Webelos leader outdoor training, and I don't care for all the local variants on NYLT. I say call the course by whatever the syllabus is called -- this way there is no mis-understanding as to course content, objective, etc. Especially if it is a national syllabus, I see no need for a local home-brew name. Call it what the syllabus is called.

World War II icon dies at 82 -- Rockwell model inspired scouts to aid country, community http://www.daily-times.com/news/ci_10089289 Monday, August 4, 2008 By James Monteleone The Daily Times Article Launched: 08/04/2008 12:00:00 AM MDT AZTEC Boy Scouts of America lost its poster face last week when Arthur Robert Hamilton died in Aztec at the age of 82. Bob Hamilton was best known for his iconic image as the saluting scout in Norman Rockwell's 1944 painting, "We, too, have a job to do," which rallied Boy Scouts to collect cans and rubber, volunteer in the community and raise victory gardens for food during World War II. But Hamilton, who died July 28, was more than a teen in the right place at the right time when Rockwell put his brush in the paint for the World War II-era image: Hamilton was a life-long scout, family members said. "He was very much defined by being a Boy Scout," said Alison H. H. King, Hamilton's daughter. "I think he influenced us to be all individuals, do the right thing, go above and beyond, make the right choices and life will pay you back." In addition to becoming an Eagle Scout at the age of 15, Hamilton became a career fundraiser with the Boy Scouts of America National Council after serving in the U.S. Navy and graduating from the University of Maryland with a degree in accounting. Hamilton, who grew up in Albany, N.Y., worked with Boy Scouts of America professionally through 1989, when he retired. He was proud of his image in the renowned Rockwell painting, a print of which Hamilton personally delivered to Vice President of the White House in 1944. To appear as the painting's model, Hamilton won a competition in his local council. "When he went in (for the painting), he had a turtle-shell neckerchief slide he made and Norman Rockwell said, Let's put on the regular neckerchief slide,'" King said of Hamilton's modeling experience. "My dad was like, Awe, I was so proud of that I painted on the back of that and Norman Rockwell told me to take it off." Although the Norman Rockwell painting is nearly 65 years old, the image continues to represent the values of the modern generation of scouts, Boy Scouts of America national spokesman Eric Moore said. "I think it orbits around the central concept of service. There's always something to be done, whether it's a war or within a local community," Moore said. "Those fundamental ideas of duty and service, those are timeless core values ... A good reminder of those values are crystallized in the paintings of Norman Rockwell." Hamilton moved to Aztec in 2003 to be close to family members living in the Farmington area while receiving care for Alzheimer's disease. One son, Farmington resident Chris Hamilton, continues the family's scouting tradition serving as an assistant scoutmaster with local Troop 179. "He embodied that whole boy scout motto and it fell downstream through his children," son Drew Hamilton said. Funeral services for Hamilton are pending. -- James Monteleone: jmonteleone@daily-times.com

Kudu really does have some great stuff at his website.