Fat Old Guy

"If the flag is made in the USA, it will be legal unless homemade." That's a new one. Where did you get that?

Merlyn, have you stopped beating your wife?

"Exploring is now a part of Learning for Life a program which is separate form the traditional scouting program and is a service of the publications division of the BSA (Boys' Life and Scouting magazines)." The publications division? That's strange place to stick a program. I had been told that LFL was a subsidiary owned by BSA.

There is a lunatic fringe that claims the gold fringe is either illegal or indicates that we are under martial law. Neither is true. https://www.perscomonline.army.mil/tagd/tioh/FAQ/FringeOnAmFlg.htm

"Which direction the field of the Flag should be in when worn on opposite sleeves of a Uniform! The Armed Forces (Yes, the Army too) seem to have resolved the issue. The blue field leads! " Why? If you consider the flag patch as a flag, the flag code requires the canton to be to the viewers left. Get over it or go join the Army.

" I am not sure if it is possible to be enrolled in a troop and an explorer post at the same time, (and still be able to advance in rank,)" It is conceivable that a boy could be registered with a Boy Scout Troop, Venturing Crew and an Explorer Post since all three are different programs. If that was the case, he could advance in Boy Scouts or Venturing.

In most business relationships, I will address the person using an honorific and I expect the same. I address my doctor as "Doctor" and he addresses me as "Mr. Fat Old Guy." The Scouts in our troop address all adults as "Mr" or "Mrs" or by a nickname that was applied to them such as "Fat Old Guy." Handshakes are an interesting thing. Way back in the second grade we had a course on ettiquette. How to answer the phone, take a message, do introductions, and part of it was how to shake hands. When do I shake hands? All the time. When I go into a cliet's office. When I meet a fellow Scouter. When I'm introduced to someone. If I'm in my office and someone has an appointment to see me and they come in, I stand up to greet them. If my co-worker from next door pops over to borrow a pen, I remain seated. I stand when a guest enters my home, if I haven't met him at the door and I offer my hand. I don't wear a usually cap indoors, the mall is a strange exception however, I never wear a cap while eating unless it is very cold. It seems like the concept of uncovering while eating has vanished from our society. "will ask what name he prefers for me to call him (so many nicknames!)" This is one of my pet peeves. My son's name is Michael. My wife and I have always addressed him as Michael and he prefers to be addressed as Michael. For some reason, the world insists on shortening it to Mike or even Mikey. The odd thing is that in my troop we have a Curtis that no one has ever called "Curt," and a "Steven" that no one has addressed as "Steve", and an Anthony that has never been called "Tony." He's asked people to not call him "Mike" but everyone from teachers to friends have ignored that request. As far diminutives go, if someone introduces himself as "James," I assume that he doesn't go by Jim unless he says, "Call me Jim." If I hear others calling him "Jim," I'll ask which he prefers. Most of the Scouts I address as "Mr. XXX" simply because I can't keep the first names straight.(This message has been edited by Fat Old Guy)

" I use this particular forum to discuss issues so that I can better understand the BSA--not so that I can find fault with it." If some one had not found fault with the Roman Catholic Church and expressed that on paper, it would still be selling indulgences and most of the world would be Papists.

Bob White, you're absolutely right. It is #1, I thought it was there but I was looking on-line and that requirement scrolled off the page. By the way Bob White, I've specifically asked you to not address or refer to me as "FOG." Evidently, the Scout Law does not apply to you.

"How does an organization have a national program AND local option when it comes to policies?" The National Federation of State High School Associations is the governing body for high school sports and set the rules and publishes the rule books. However, they allow each state to change rules if they desire. For example, the rules as written don't use a shot clock but some states have adopted shot clocks for basketball. Eligibility rules are set by each conference. "The Military if every base determined its own function and policies" Your vast experience with the military is showing again. It is not unusal for a base commander to set many local policies. Examples are may civilians use base facilities, will they have an open house, and may the Boy Scouts camp on the base.

What is the difference between a red jac-shirt made for BSA but sold by Woolrich and a red jac-shirt made by Woolrich and sold by BSA? Same item, just a different retail outlet.

What is the difference between a red jac-shirt made for BSA but sold by Woolrich and a red jac-shirt made by Woolrich and sold by BSA? Same item, just a different retail outlet.

"If you can find a GSUSA unit "owned and operated" by a government agency, sure; otherwise, the GSUSA, being a private organization, can do what it likes. " Can it? Not really. That's why "men's clubs" came under fire twenty years ago. I believe that the Supremes said that an organization can only discriminate if that discrimination is central to the organization's mission or message. Consequently, the KKK can exclude blacks but the YMCA cannot. In any case, you stated that you knew of military regulations that prohibited private organizations from operating on military bases. If that's true, why are there so many Girl Scout troops on military bases.

This has been an ongoing discussion in my troop for many years. For a long time, I supported the idea of "activity requirements" because I don't like the idea of kids joining organizations but never actively supporting or participating. However, after this lenghty discussion here, I've come to agree with Bob White and OGE. Well, to a certain amount. What do you do with a Star Scout who has done his time in a POR but then vanishes for three years. His dues checks roll in so he remains registered. Suddenly, he appears, gets a blue card and vanishes. Six months later, he shows up again and with the last blue card that he needs for life and he wants to be promoted. The requirements don't say "be active in the troop." They simply say, "serve actively . . . for 6 months" He has fullfilled the letter of the requirements but has he met the spirit or the intent of the requirements? Maybe when Bob White calls Texas to check on the name of the organization, he could suggest that something be added to the requirements that a Scout actually has to be active with his troop before advancement can occur.

I was in a Woolrich outlet not long ago and I asked if they ever have the red Scout Jackets. They do get them but not very often. It didn't occur to me to ask what tag was in it. The jacket patch is $2 and you're good to go. If a person has a choice between wearing a red wool jacket that doesn't have a BSA tag and a Wrangler denim jacket, what should they do?

Do you think that the ACLU would help my son get into GSUSA? How about making me a GS leader and changing the rules so I can take the girls camping by myself. Wait, I almost forgot that heterosexual men are evil and cannot be trusted around teenaged girls. I wonder what is so different about homosexual men that makes them so trustworthy around teenaged boys.

"BTW-- We have had 6 Eagles so far this year and may have as many as 3 or 4 more still." Just curious, how large is your troop (your web site didn't say)? How many new Scouts do you get each year? What is your retention rate for new Scouts? Rough estimates are fine. What is the driving force behind most of your Eagles? Is it the Scout, the Scoutmaster, or the parents pushing to make Eagle. I'm curious because we have a fair sized troop (57 Scouts) with more than a few Life Scouts but we only have one or two Eagles each year.

"Most do not" I haven't done an extensive survey. However, I do know that the Scouts that I've met that are in low numbered units take great pride in the fact that their Troop has been around for 50 or 75 or more years.

"Do you really think that the boys care how long a unit has been in existance? " Some do and some don't. Just like some care that their school won the football championship last year and some don't.

Merlyn, you're doing a great job of avoiding the issue. Face it, you and all your comrades are hipocrites.

Yes, listen to Bob, the old books contain evil old knowledge and are dangerous. They contain no fancy graphics or slick four color pictures. Those old ideas are very dangerous.

God, this is a tough one and one that I've had to struggle with as well. How is the troop currently run? Are the Scouts running it or are the adults making all the decision? Two or three Scoutmasters back we had an SM who thought that he was letting the boys plan their program but in reality, it was the adults. What he'd do is present the PLC with activities that he thought they should do and they'd vote "Aye." Are the adults acting like Den Leaders or they simply staying out of the way and letting the Scouts handle the events? If the troop is running smoothly as a Scout run troop, then your short comings probably wouldn't be a great handicap. However, if the troop is adult run and you want to change the culture, you need to be a communicator, leader, persuader, etc.. In any event, go to the Scoutmaster training. It is a wonderful way to learn how the program is supposed to run. As for old manuals, keep the old one but buy a new one as well. I have a the new Scoutmaster's Handbook as well as one from 1961. I find the old one to be much better written and a much easier read than the new.

"It sponsors other established Youth Groups like, BSA, GUSA, Little League Baseball, and a lot of others. .." GSUSA discriminates on the basis of sex but no one ever complains about that. Little League discriminates as well; girls may play LL Baseball but boys may not play LL Softball. Both organizations violate Federal laws. Evidently some forms of discrimination are okay but others are not.

"Second, christmas and easter are originally pagan holidays" Not quite right. Christmas and easter replaced pagan holidays. Christmas celebrates the birth of Christ and Easter celebrates his re-birth. The fact that pagans may have has as little significance as a person in Mexico having his birtday on the fourth of July. Even if you were correct, pagans are not atheists so you and yours are still the hipocrites.

BP said something along the lines of "Never do for a boy what he can do for himself." As eisley said, let them handle as much as they can. Most of the time, I say, "Let them worry about their own details." If they forget something, it can be a learning experience for them. Some adults want to micromanage every activity. If I see a glaring problem, like the list for the camp out doesn't include food, I'll try to make them see the omission without stating it explicitly. "Hey guys, what's for dinner the first night?" Too many of the other adults want to just say, "hey guys, you forgot food." Maybe I shouldn't say that much but I also don't want to have to spend a weekend with a bunch of crying and hungry Scouts. The scouts can even worry about logistics. Transportation issues can be handled by a Scout as can supplies for a climbing trip. Maybe an adult needs to check the work but that's minor.