Fat Old Guy

"It would be funny if the same "leaders" who want the scouts to be able to play laser tag didn't want them to prep food at home and make retort pouches or cook with tin foil. " Ah, yet another slam at Scouters who disagree with BSA policy followed by a comment that makes no sense.

On April 23, 1996, Mike said in a posting on rec.scouting.usa "ALL Cub Scouts have the option, depending on Pack preference, to wear the tan "universal uniform" with blue shoulder loops or the traditional blue uniform. No matter which uniform, the insignia is worn in the same locations." There seems to be much more than what is published in the Insignia Guide. For example, it doesn't say in the Insignia Guide that I may wear any BSA hat. It also doesn't say that my troop can elect to wear the old green uniform but they may. Mike isn't in the habit of giving out bad information so I'll stick with him, if you don't mind.

I haven't seen any Cub Scout swelling with pride when they put on a tan shirt. It seems to be, "Ho hum. Mom bought me a new shirt." BTW, according to Mike Walton, a pack can elect for all members to wear the tan shirt. Interesting, no?

National Scouting Museum Boy Scouts of America, S505 1329 West Walnut Hill Lane Irving, TX 75038 800-303-3047 972-580-2100 e-mail: nsmuseum@netbsa.org

TwoCubDude, you answered the wrong question. I'm wondering when the Boy Scouts moved it from immediately below the rank emblem to below the pocket. As for the push to put Webelos in khaki, I'm not a big fan. The change in uniform used to be a significant step, now that's going away.

Back in Olden days, Cub Scouts wore the AOL on their left pocket flap and Boy Scouts wore it immediately below their rank badge. At some time, the Boy Scouts moved it to below the left pocket. When did that happen? My 1990 handbook shows it right below the rank patch.

Well Bob, the problem is that none of your cites are authorotative and one is for a "firearm simulator" that uses a laser. ATFE says that a firearm uses gunpowder or similar chemical propellant. Lasers are regulated by the FDA. Calling a laser weapon a "firearm" is just like calling a Venturer a "Venture Scout."

Gotta give out the awards. Those little guys worked hard and want/need to be recognized in front of their peers and parents. We didn't have a gigantic pack, about 50 Cub Scouts but that was enough that the awards table was filled every month. The Scouts would head for that table first to see who was getting what but most of the stuff was covered. LOL! Usually our meetings went Important announcements Awards Game Awards Song Rank awards Cake drawing Good Bye

Gee Bob, I did a Google search on "laser firearm" and most of what I turned up was for laser aiming devices, there was one site that came up as "laser weapon" with "Firearm" elsewhere in the reference. I only looked at the first 30 or so hits, maybe you have the time to look at the other 11,000.

At last year's University of Scouting, I attended a class on Venture Patrols. In response to the complain that Venture Patrols suck all of the leaders out of the regular patrols, the instructor put for the proposition that you can petition the Lord with prayer . . . oops, wrong thread. He put forth the idea of the Venture Patrol being an ad hoc patrol. One the forms when needed and picks a new PL for each activity. This way, one PL could be working on the rafting trip and the other could be working on the AT trail hike. This also keeps them in regular patrols where they can be a great asset.

By taking the paper plates and such, you are "enabling" the Scouts, as the pop psychologists would say. There is no negative side to not bringing their gear. The rest is laziness and is widespread in society. Look at the parents who buy "Lunchables" for their kids to take to school and delude themselves that they are buy a good meal for their kids.

"Seek government shelters if your home is not concrete." ROFLMAO! Even the $700,000 houses are only vinyl siding over 2x4s. BTW, the latest information here on the mainland is that the opinion has changed about keeping a window open to equalize air pressure.

When I was a youngster in grade school we'd have a massive squirt gun battle at school on the last day of school. Oddly, none of us shot our parents, killed our teachers or grew up to rob 7-11s.

"You wrote these rules? You must have since you know the intent. If not, you must be reading between the lines." Writing them isn't necessary to know the intent, only access to historic document is. In my EVIL 1962 edition of the Scoutmaster's Handbook, it is clear that Scouters are to refrain from using alcohol and tobacco around Scouts to set an example. Oddly, the current Scoutmaster's Handbook (the GOOD version) doesn't list tobacco or alcohol in the index.

"But I told him the difference between a real gun and a play gun." They probably hadn't. If you pay attention to such things, after most accidental shootings by children, the parent will say, "I didn't know that he knew the gun was in the house" or "I didn't have time to teach him about gun safety". The right age to start is when they can talk.

"1) We are not permitted to smoke in front of Scouts. But there is nothing that prevents us from smoking outside of the Scouting program. "2) Same with drinking alchohol." The intent behind both rules is to discourage the Scouts from drinking and smoking in their lives outside of Scouting. I still ask, if the riflery instructor at camp is attacked by a knife wielding madman, should the Scouts the scouts simply cower in fear or should a BRAVE scout pick up his .22 and pop the nut? Remember the case about ten years ago in which a father was being beaten by an intruder, a young lad went and got his .22 and shot the intruder, saving the father's life. Maybe if he'd been a Boy Scout, the dad would be dead. The papers around the country are filled with stories of children saving lives with guns and, oddly, accidental deaths with firearms are the lowest that they've been in decades.

"And its both parents fault for teaching their child that it is OK to point guns at people. " No, the problem is that they didn't teach their child the difference between real and toy guns. The difference is distinct and easily grasped by children. I grew up in a community where hunting was a popular sport and hunting rifles just hung on the wall. We also all played Cowboys and Oppressed Native Americans or Invading American Imperialists vs. The Misunderstood Nazis with cap guns. Oddly, all of us knew that you didn't point dad's 30-06 at anyone. Bob asked, "Since when did any scouting regulation or policy have any force or affect outside of scouting activities?" Since BSA expects that all Scouts will live by their teachings when they are not on a Scouting activity, they should expect this rule to carry on in the non-Scouting part of life.

As usual, Bob White dances around the point and quotes BSA literature. To repeat myself, BSA's wording prohibits using a firearm for self defense. This does fit with BSA's ban on other self defense activities such as boxing and martial arts. I suppose that the brave part of being a Scout includes letting someone pound the snot out of you. (This message has been edited by Fat Old Guy)

" This is where training the adult leaders comes into to play" What you need are trained adults who have bought into the program. We have a raft of trained adults who don't think that boys can lead and that merit badges are entitlements.

"FatOldGuy, why do you have to say things like that? You know that the BSA is not saying what you should and shouldn't do on your "own time." (Other than that you must obey the law.) " All I know is what BSA says, it is not for me to "read between the lines" or attempt to make BSA literature say anything than it actually does. BSA says, "Pointing any type of firearm (including paintball, dye, or lasers) at any individual is unacceptable." It doesn't say, "during Scouting activities" but if it did, does that mean if someone attacks and stabs the riflery instructor at camp, that no one should hold him at bay with a rifle? They could have said, "paintball, lasertag and similar activities involving gun-like implements are inappropriate for Scouting."

" This is basically a canned NRA presentation expanded to about four times their depth because we don't think that their safety program is detailed enough (interestingly, we find the BSA's program even LESS detailed)." What's so complicated? Treat all firearms as if they are loaded. Never point it anything that you don't want a hole in. Keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to shoot. A Gunnery Sergeant yelled this into my ear about 30 years ago and I haven't forgotten it.

I'd argue that they aren't official since BSA never manufactured pants in that configuration.

I've never made the connection before but in retrospect, two out of three DEs that I've worked with have been southpaws. I do just about everything right handed. However I go both ways with a fork, left for meat and right to scoop up mashed potatoes. Politically, I'm a right wing Socialist who believes that everyone has an obligation to work so the government can support me in style.

What about when you find a intruder about to rape your sister? "Sorry Sis, BSA says I can't point the shotgun at the guy." Perhaps is should read: Pointing any type of firearm (including paintball, dye, or lasers) at any individual is an unacceptable form of recreation or sport. I've always thought that laser tag was taboo.

How about going back to the old (read that as evil) system in which a Scout could not earn merit badges until he reached 1st class? Maybe then summer camp for the new Scouts could concentrate on Scout stuff like hiking, swimming, fire building and general fun without the need to fuss about merit badges.