Fat Old Guy

Spiral bound books are neat but they have their problems The springs get smushed The ends of the springs get caught on stuff Pages still tear out when all the hole wear through They don't stack easily I wish that they had gone back to the last edition of the handbook which had some useful information in it. I just looked at Scoutstuff.org. They describe the current handbook thus "11th edition. Still the basic book for every Scout, but with more information than ever before." More information? LOL!

Much of what our handbook includes is taken straight from BSA publications. We list the Aims and Methods along with an explanation of each. Explanations and requirements for troop positions (youth and adult). Explanation of "active". Fund raisning and "scout account" explanation. Uniform expectations along with an inspection sheet. Code of conduct and discipline. Equipment check out procedures. Responsibility for lost or damaged equipment. How to do a merit badge. How to request a board of review. Religious emblems program. Why do we have one? So no one can say, "I didn't know that I was supposed to . . ." Basically the whole thing is CYA.

My extraordinarily EVIL 1948 Handbook makes no mention of "scout sign over heart" and neither does my pretty EVIL 1990 Handbook. The '48 still has the atheist version of the Pledge of Allegiance.

I don't have my son's current handbook hand but I do have the EVIL 1967 edition. It says to salute in uniform with or without cap. Out of uniform, place hand over heart, nothing about Scout sign.

" why ias she weariing a scout uniform?? " Probably an assistant producer said, "Could you wear your Boy Scout uniform?"

I salute in field uniform or activity uniform, both are uniforms just as dress blues and dungarees are uniforms for sailors. Being of a nautical bent, I was taught to not salute when uncovered and to never be covered indoors (few exceptions) but neither seem to be the Scout tradition. I remember seeing a picture of a Scout Salute while carrying a staff which was similar to what guards do in some situations. Stand at attention with staff in right hand and grounded, bring left hand across abdomen with palm parallel to ground so fingers touch staff.

"has a red fleur-de-lis and the words "Scout B.S.A."" Is that from the time that old timers call "when they tried to take the 'Boy' out of BoyScouts"?

"He also said that one too many times he has had to stop Eagle Boards because they started to test skills. The board had to be reschulded with different memembers. " I've been told that in mythe district in which the troop that I serve is located, any subject in the Handbook is fair game. They ask questions about Scout History. Ask them to tie knots. Bandage ankles.

"Now, maybe I'm an unusual self starter but I personally went out and bought the books so that I could find the answers when I first got started. These people didn't." You are unusual. Look at the relatively few Scouters show up at Roundtable, Pow Wow or University of Scouting. Those are the people who want to learn, the rest are just putting in time.

"They're still just a bunch of parents, not trained leaders. Also working to change that soon." Training alone doesn't help. A change of attitude is also required.

"If your troop has a license from your state allowing them to solicit charitable contributions (A fund raising license) then the answer is that there is nothing to stop them. " Since the troop is not a legal entity, isn't it only necessary for the CO to be so licensed. Makes we wonder if our public school system is so registered, they are always asking for money.

Tell me something, when the current eight methods of Scouting were adopted was there an official revocation of the old methods? Was it in the Scoutmaster's handbook, "Do no use last year's methods!" I checked my current handbook and it doesn't say anything about not using the old methods. Does that mean that they are still valid? You really are amusing, according to you old books are evil and dangerous except when you say that they aren't. Makes me wonder if you spend your time chasing a guy named Montag.

"Speaking as a member of what used to be called a childless couple What are they called now?

"This will be a big help as I'm about to become the Big Bad Guy and I'm going to remind the units that they can not go asking for donations." So a troop isn't allowed to ask the local fishing store for a couple boxes of lures for "fishing day"? What't the rationale behind this? Why is it okay for a Council to solicit millions in donations but a troop isn't supposed to ask for squat?

It says what it says. "The Handbook" is the current handbook for the program, this is your mantra. The uniform is part of the program (one of the eight methods). Since the uniform is part of the program and only the program in the current handbook is valid then only the uniform shown in the current handbook is valid. I'm wondering how we are supposed to know what Mr. Walton actually says in his response.(This message has been edited by Fat Old Guy)

" He was looking for money for an x-box. He asked my older son for some too." Shows initiative. :-) I'd love to know what prompted him to come to you for money. You didn't happen to say, "If you ever need help, don't be afraid to ask."?

Gee eisley, you beat me to it.

"The clause I quoted from the current insignia guide states that once a uniform piece is approved by the executive board and published it is an official uniform. It may not be current but it is still official." Ah, I've figured out your real name Bob White. It is Humpty Dumpty. In one breath you tell us not to read between the lines and in another you tell us that we should. You see, that's your interpretation of that statement and you expend many bits and bytes telling us that we don't need to interpret anything published by BSA because it all states exactly what it means. BTW, can you give me a link to this posting by Mr. Walton? I've searched groups.google and I can't find it.

I wish that you had spoken with him so you'd know what he wanted. Cub Scout aged boys are known to do some strange things. Not too long ago, a child that I didn't know knocked on my door and asked if I could fix his bike. I could, so I did. Perhaps Mom had said, "ask your Cubmaster . . ." so Junior thought that he needed to do it immediately. Perhaps he needed help and was turning to you. We may never know.

Sorry Bob, Mr. Walton didn't write what you quoted. That is from the rec.scouting.usa charter. "Page one of the Insignia Guide Book, heading; Official Uniforms, Clause 2, explains that the official uniform Shall be those appoved by the action of the Executive Board of the BSA from time to time, as illustrated and correctly described in the handbooks, catalogs and other official publications of the BSA. By your own standards, that bird don't fly. You tell us that we should get the program from the current publications and not the old ones. Show me a current catalog, handbook or other publication that shows the old green uniform. And once again Bob White shows that the Scout Law is meaningless to him.

When did the changes take place in the Board of Review? I looked in my EVIL 1962 Scoutmaster's Handbook and it specifies that the BOR consists of Committee Members and other adults. When did it become "Committee Only"? I'm also wondering if anyone conducts BoRs to see why a Scout isn't advancing?

I'd go with be willing to let the Scouts make mistakes. Also, be willing to let the Scouts run with some harebrained ideas unless they are unsafe. They might work and if they don't, the Scouts have learned something. As Eaamon said, laughing with the Scouts is important. We have two ASMs who are equally by-the-book and hard nosed about the program. One is loved by the Scouts and the other disliked by everyone. The difference is that former has fun, laughs at himself, and is approachable. To the latter, the book is the program and if fun is had, it is incidental and by the numbers.

Where did I get a six year old quote from Mike Walton? Just where I said that I got it, from rec.scouting.usa. I don't know Mr. Walton but he's always backed his statements up with references from the Supply Division, memos to Scout Executives, etc.. From reading his postings on rec.scouting.usa and his web site, he seems to have access to some obscure reference material. Bob White, you and others have quoted the Insignia Guide and Inspection Sheets but you haven't told me where it states that Scouts may elect to wear the old green uniform. It certainly doesn't state that in the Insignia guide, on the inspection sheet, in the Scoutmaster's Handbook or the Scout Handbook. Why do you refuse to believe that something outside your ken may exist?

Once again Bob White demonstrates that the Scout Law does not apply to him.

" This is the kind of personal attack that is so unnecessary. " If they are unnecessary, why do you resort to personal attacks so often?