Fat Old Guy

"Are we out of compliance?" I was told that you can always use a higher number than required. So if you wanted to have everyone do a Class 3, that would be fine.

"I consider decisions between a physician and a patient to be their business and their responsibility alone. Not mine nor anyone else's." That's fine if you're talking about having a wart removed or getting liposuction but there's a third person involved who doesn't get to speak. "As for the death penalty, I cannot conceive of Jesus supporting or condoning any person to be killed. Period. And I don't claim to have a higher authority than that." How about his dad?

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" Looking at the military insignia for american officers in all the services, when there are 2 similar insignia for dififerent ranks (2lt & 1lt or major and LtCol) the silver is always higher. all generals and admirals add silver stars." In another thread, I posted a link to an Army website that explains how the silver/gold thing came about for the officer's insignia. There's no heraldric significance, it was a matter of practicality and economics at the time they were adopted.

Some questions. What were the convictions for? How long ago were they?

"You original post suggests you do not believe that a moral end can come from breaking laws. Is that a fair understanding of what you meant. So if that is the case, ould you agree that murder is breaking a law and so it is not a justifiable means to an end. Would you agree with that?" Ah Bob White, trying to put words in my mouth. Breaking of the law is not necessarily immoral and obeying the law isn't always moral. Next we need to define "murder." Murder, is the unlawful taking of a life. If the law says that I can kill you because I don't like you, that wouldn't be murder but it also wouldn't be moral, at least by my reckoning. On the other hand, if I come to your house and find you attempting to carve your wife for dinner, I could kill you in her defense and that would be both moral and legal.

"I'm a liberal because I think that the highest purpose of government is to put the talent and treasure of an entire society to work on behalf of what Lincoln called "the better angels of our nature" . . . to ensure that the hungry are fed, the naked clothed, the homeless housed, and the sick healed." Last time I checked, the federal government was supposed to mint money, provide for the common defense and regulate interstate commerce. State and local governments really aren't supposed to do much more than provide an infrastructure.

"That sounds pretty racist to me, but if that wasn't your meaning I apologize." Why? Did I mention race? I don't like illegal aliens of any color and I don't like them benefitting from our tax dollars when they, by definition, are criminals who don't belong here.

"I guess it depends FOG. Do you consider murder an immoral means? " Another example of Bob White not living by the Scout law. What murder are we talking about? I haven't murdered anyone (that's my story and I'm sticking to it), have you?

". Would you urge a scout to knowingly break a law because it will serve your cause?" Depends. I would have encouraged German Scouts to hide Jews during WW II. I would encourage a Scout to ignore a "No Swimming" sign, there was a drowning person. I would encourage a Scout to pull a fire alarm to summon help, even if there was no fire.

"I'm allowed to eat, drink & smoke to excess. I can partake in risky behaviors all without the government interfering. Let me self diagnose and treat myself." There's a big problem with that. You aren't qualified to diagnose yourself which hinders your ability to treat yourself. Can you tell when you have a viral infection vs. a bacterial infrection? Do you know which anti-biotics work for what types of infections? If people could medicate themeselves they'd be overmedicating themselves which would wind breeding bacteria that are more resistant to drugs. What about pain killers? Many are very addictive? Should you be allowed to take those at will?

"As for executions, what right does the state, acting on behalf of it's citizens, to commit murder, even of a murderer?" Sorry, it isn't murder. Murder is the unlawful causing of death. " How many have you adopted? " What's that have to do with the price of tea in china? I have children that were given to me by God (with my wife's help). There are many who would adopt children but the waiting lists for infants are long. If people weren't willing to adopt, there wouldn't be so many Korean, Ukrainian and Russian kids coming into the coutry. "To those who dare criticize a woman's (or woman-child's) decision to have an abortion," With few exceptions, she made her choice nine months before the child popped out. I know, you'll cry about incest and rape but those are rare compared to the stupid girls who have sex just because their boyfriend wants it.

Even though I don't like the idea of teenagers on the road, the really absurd thing is that a 16 year old can drive to work, church, school, or the movies but he can't drive to a troop meeting. If a 17 year old did drive, I don't know how much the insurance issue would really come into play. If he had an accident, the insurance on his vehicle would pay. I don't know how good BSA's insurance is anyway. I was injured at Summer Camp and was told to use the Council's insurance information when I went to the hospital. I'm still dealing with paperwork two years later. If I had known what a hassle it was going to be, I'd have used my insurance and paid the $25 co-pay.

" Those that want to restrict abortion rights," No one has been able to explain to me why it is okay to kill an unborn baby but not okay to kill a convicted murderer.

" The real issue is how do we ensure that ALL US citizens (and legal residents) have health care." If we had national health care, you can be sure that it would be extended to illegal aliens just like their kids are entitled to go to public schools.

"Also, I know having uniforms is great, but I don't think a troop can require that all the girls wear them." According to my daughter's troop leader, the only required item is the felt do-dad with the membership pin.

See my reply to your other message.

There are restrictions on what may be worn on the Official red jacket (wool jac-shirt or nylon windbreaker) but many do put all sorts of patches on them. Most adults wear just one patch at a time in a patch holder on the right pocket of the uniform shirt and change patches on a regular basis. I see nothing in the Insignia Guide to preclude an adult from wearing a red patch vest. I'd make my own rather than buy one at the Scout Shop. Also, I don't think that I'd wear a patch vest at any adult oriented function (roundtable, pow-wow, etc). They could also buy an inexpensive blanket or a big piece of felt, sew the patches to it and display it. Another option that I've seen is to cut a head hole in the blanket it and wear it as a poncho on chilly nights while sitting around a campfire.

"I also interpret that a troop event is considered an "area" Boy Scout activity." As logical as that might be, it is wrong but I'm with you on the whole thing making no sense and possibly being stupid. Somehow a 17 year old Scout isn't mature enough to drive to a campout or even a troop meeting but 16 year old Venturer is mature enough to drive to similar events. Some will argue that is has to do with the ages of others that may be in the car and how the 17 year old can be distracted by 12 year old Scouts and a car filled with 16 year old Venturers will be the model of decorum. The people that make that argument really must have had a boring childhood and not know much about teenagers at all. Cars filled with teenagers are leathal weapons, loaded guns with safeties that don't work. One of the TV news shows put hidden cameras in teenager's cars and the results were shocking. If they'd raise the driving age to 18, I'd be a happy man.

slontwovvy, gotta agree with you there. Legally, 15 year-olds are children but that's where the resemblence ends.

The 13th point of Bob White's Law of Scouting, A Scout is Snide.

frankj, you need to get a copy of the last handbook and compare it to this one. They've taken out all sorts of useful information and added lots of big, color pictures. If you hand the two books to nearly any Scout and ask him which he'd rather use, he'll say "the older one."

"the Boy Scout Handbook; and" You must mean an old version.

The lines of liberal and conservative are very confusing. Liberal would imply that personal freedoms are paramount but that's not what I see. Liberals are the ones who push for things like mandatory seat belt or helmet laws. Liberals seem to want government to be a parent to us and tell us what is good for us. If memory serves, Clinton made a statement to that effect. There has been a dramatic swing in the liberal/conservative world. It used to be that conservatives trusted the government and liberals didn't. Now it is the other way around. What am I? Most consider me a conservative because I want the government to say out of my business. I've always worn a seatbelt but don't like being told that I must. I support capital punishment and I don't think that prisoners should get TVs, internet or a free education. "I would rejoice the day we take a chapter out of Canada's book and implemented free health care." Nothing is really free, they taught that in Econ 101.

Well Bob White, if you're out on the trail it isn't beyond the realm of possibility that someone has a few boxes of Parmalat. If you're back in camp, someone could hand him a carton of milk and the kid drinks it without thinking because mom always gives him soy milk.