Fat Old Guy

" He is selected by the patrol to help them coordinate and cooperate as a team, not to hand out assignments like the dictatorial leader whose example he is mimicking." Sorry but "The Patrol Leader's Handbook" disagrees with you on this one. Page 64 says "One of your early tasks will bt to assign members to various position of responsibility . . . ." It goes on to say, "Drawing up a duty roster . . . By writing down who will take care of each task, you can make sure that every patrol member has a chance to share in the effort." There's no need for coaching or support when it comes to the duty roster. Something that you are ignoring is the fact that for a leader to suceed, the leadees need to be willing to be led. Delegation only works if the delagees are willing to take on a task because they know it needs to be don, even if it isn't their first choice. Every Scout knows that someone needs to do the dishes and that someone needs check the fire buckets. Your analogy to pick-up games is good but not quite on the money. In a sandlot game, two captains are picked, usually by acclamation. The word of those captains then becomes law. When teams are being chosen, there's no discussion or debate. If Bobby uses his turn to pick Jimmy but Jimmy would rather play for Fred, too bad. Jimmy has two choices, go home or play for Bobby. Sometimes, pre-draft conditions get set (You get Danny but you also have to have two little kids)

Gotta love the term "Field Uniform," especially since it isn't intended to be worn in the field. I want to know what wacko thought up the elastic waistband. My son refuses to wear them. The Scout Shop manager says that he's never heard a positive comment about the elastic waistband. Anyway, an elastic waistband for adults? Come on!

Alas yes, chaos. The PL and APL have been through JLT but that I don't think that helps with 11 and 12 year olds. Here's a classic: on a campout last spring, the PL had set up a duty roster. Well, the other guys didn't like being told that they had to do stuff and yelled at him, "You're not in charge!" That led to a sitting time with an old guy in khaki explaining how they elected him to make decisions and assign jobs.(This message has been edited by Fat Old Guy)

What sort of age distribution do you have in your patrols? All young boys or do you have a mix of 11 through 14 year olds? My son's patrol is all 12 year olds and if left on their own, they'd do nothing but bicker and squabble. They spent 20 minutes arguing about lunch on a campout because one Scout didn't want grilled cheese sandwhiches like the rest did. No one saw the obvious solution of just a cheese sandwhich for the one fellow. It's not just his patrol, the other 12 year old patrols are the same way. My son's patrol had two older Scouts but one became SPL and the other bailed because he didn't want to be stuck with a bunch of "little kids."

Maybe I'm missing the point. It looks like the only function of Studio 2B is to keep revenue coming into GSUSA. Baden-Powell and Julliette Low must be turning over in their graves.

First I had to find out what IOLS is since it didn't exist when I went to school and my district doesn't break it out by name. I then went web surfing and found that IOLS ranges from a 1 day course to a Saturday followed by a Friday night, Saturday, and Sunday course (what we used to have) with variations in-between. Evidently, my council wants the 1 day variety instead of the more thorough variety. Why? I don't know. Well, I have the District Training Chair's spin on it. Are the lenghty courses going beyond the official curriculum? If the official curriculum is the two weekend course, how are some councils getting by with a one day class? Last spring the council did offer an "advanced" outdoor skill course and not enough people signed up to make it a go. I think that they wanted 40 and got 15.

"Those pants fit better and are more comfortable than uniform pants?" Those people are too cheap to buy civilian pants that fit, do you really think that they'd buy Scout pants. I'd like to try the cotton or poly/wool pants but the Scout Shop doesn't stock them. That leaves me with two options: ask the shop to order pants for me in a variety of sizes and fabrics which they may never be able to sell or order them and eat postage both ways.

Hopper, How many of your activities are year round? Around here, kids that play a sport, play it year round and the multi-sport athletes are becoming very rare. Basketball and soccer are the big offenders, involving their players in year round games, camps and tournements. What is amusing is that many of these players aren't good enough to make their high school team but still their parents are spending thousands of dollars a year for them to play a sport. Baseball is getting pretty bad too. I know that practice for spring ball starts in February, then you have summer ball and fall baseball too. That gives the players two months to do something else. Let's see what was I involved in, back then . . . maybe it was more than I thought . . . Basketball - that took about 12 weeks total of the year Drama club - another 12 weeks (I'm guessing that we put in about six weeks per play) German club - one afternoon a month Orchestra (not school related) - year round with travel Explorers - usually one night a week during the school year That's it and I was about as busy as anyone that I knew except for the drugged out burn-outs.

IMHO, the best solution is to remove the cancer at its source but there is a danger to that as well, the patient may die from the surgery. How's that? The CC and the CM get so ticked off at being replaced and stomp off in a huff taking their kids with them. Their kids' friends want to leave as well and then others figure that something must be wrong so they leave too. Be that as it may, you can't let people stray too far from the program. At this point it is really up to the COR to step up to the plate. Maybe the Unit Commissioner should be involved as well. There may not be a good resolution and the best thing is for you to take your den and run away. The pack may die which is not a good thing but the worst thing is that the boys are being denied the Cub Scout experience.

What is the difference between squirt gun battles and laser tag? In both games, you lie in wait for you opponent or stalk him and then attempt to shoot him. The only difference is that in laser tag, once shot, you are out of the game. In that regard, it is like "release" or even dodge ball (which is no prohibited in my local system).

Where is all the outdoor skill training going? When I went to Scoutmaster School, we spent a Saturday on outdoor skills and then went camping a week later on Friday night, spent Saturday on outdoor skills, camped Saturday night and then did more outdoor stuff on Sunday. Now, I've been told that the "long weekend" has been eliminated because it is "unnecessary." Our District Training Chair tells me that most outdoors stuff has been eliminated from Wood Badge as well. Is BSA planning on eliminating the outdoor program? If not, where are leaders supposed to learn outdoorsy stuff? It's not like we're all great frontiersmen.

I guess that the pirate skit that I saw a summer camp is forbidden as well since it involved a pirate "killing" some crewmen with a cardboard sword. Magic tricks in which the "helper" is sawn in half should be banned as well.

If the government diverged from my interests as much as Disney has, I wouldn't support it either. Have you studied a little set-to that took place here about 230 years ago? Disney, Levi-Strauss, and Steven Speilberg are all on my list of companies to boycott.

Bob White, you seem fixated with "Yaworski," you really should seek help. You did imply that you weren't going to post again until I left and I'm not the only one that read it that way. "Special friend/special relationship," a difference which makes no difference is no difference. Sputter and fume as you might, you've been asked to provide citations to back your position and you can't.

Put up or shut up? Okay, http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=32869 It wasn't just me who thought you were going away forever, it was many others. As for "special friends," I said that you had a "special relationship" so it follows that the other person would be your "special friend." But you knew all of this already. BTW, again you show that, to you, the Scout Law is nothing but words.

"I thought parents wanted too see their kids to suceed thats why they encourage them." As I said elsewhere, there is a big difference between encouraging and pushing. "Well all of ouyr kids when they go to these pow wows always have a good time so i must be living in pleasantville then. They here it from their friends who have good time and then they come along plain and simple." Good time? Is that how you measure the effectiveness of a merit badge program? Do the Scouts actually learn anything? Do they retain any of the information? Merit badge universities ("pow-wows" where you live) defeat one of the principle purposes of the merit badge which is to recognize the Scout for things that he does outside of the Scouting arena. My observation of summer camp merit badges is much the same, it is just a way to fill time at camp. Slap together a basket, don't worry about doing it right. Just do it. Leather work? You can finish it in a day at summer camp.

"My feeling is, though, the leaders just didn't want to put up with keeping the records." What records? Until a merit badge is completed, the Scout keeps the blue card. If he has it sitting on his dresser for two years, that's between him and his mother.

We should be asking ourselves if we want to support Disney, a company that doesn't support the values of the Boy Scout movement.

"By the way I'm not sure who you mean by my "special friend"," Ah, the Bob White selective memory. The last time that I refered to your special friend, you stomped off in a huff and swore to never return. We all saw how long that lasted.

Eight activities or more. That's a bunch. Back in the stone ages, I was involved in five activites (if my memory is working) but few occurred at the same time. All the ones with pressure were had definite starts and stops which left me with much of the year to enjoy life. Now, I look at kids and I'm amazed that they all don't go postal. The high school drama club put on a musical last spring and they had started rehersals the summer before. Basketball and soccer players live that sport year round, always preparing for a tournement. The pros get some time off but not 15 year olds. Scouting is designed to be a fun activity but it has become a high pressure activity like basketball and drama club. Instead of Eagle being the result of being active in Scouts for an extended period, it has become the goal of a high intensity campaign. Get in, get the Eagle, get out and find a new activity for the resume.

"As for the comment that, "if he's still registered, you shouldn't exclude him"...baloney." And now instead of thinking about coming back, he says, "I was thinking about going back to Scouting but Mr. Saltheart says I can't do anything." Good-bye lost Scout.

Yet another example of how Bob White doesn't abide by the Scout Law. Maybe I'll fuss and whine and run to your special friend to complain that you've said mean things to me and aren't playing nice. Please cite the document (page and paragraph with quote) that supports your position.

Why do people collect stamps? Why do people collect Beanie Babies or college sweatshirts? I know a fellow likes the history of colonial Africa and collects military badges from that era. He's never been in any branch of any service and has never been to Africa. Oddly, he thinks that Scouters who collect patches are morons. Often collections start out innocently enough. You go somewhere and get an X. Later, you get an X from another event that you've been to. Next, you are somewhere and see an X from an event that you didn't go to but you buy it because it looks neat. Now, you have a collection and start looking to fill it in. I collect CSPs from councils that I've been involved with. Why? I don't know for sure. I like the history that they represent. I like them. I have a collection of Scout Handbooks and other publications going back into the 40s. Why? I find them interesting reading, great for giving an historic perspective into the program and excellent reference materials (despite their EVIL nature). I don't know that I'd seek out a Jamboree ring since I'm neither a Scoutmaster nor did I go to the Jamboree but if someone gave me one, I might wind up starting a new collection. As for prices on ebaY, you need to be an aware consumer. For example, I found a CSP that I wanted on ebaY and around the same time I found an "internet store" that sold CSPs and had the one that I wanted for $1 less than the starting bid. If nothing else, wasting money on a collection keeps historic items from winding up in a landfill and is usually cheaper than having a mistress.

There are those for whom you want to extend yourself and those that you'd rather they vanish. If your connection is gone, then your really don't need to extend yourself for a vanished Scout. However, if he's still registered, you shouldn't exclude him from activities unless the troop has an established policy that you have to do X, Y, and Z before you can do W. Also that policy needs to come from the PLC and not the SM, after all they in charge an you are only there to train them.

Well Bob, since you like to read into what others write, I'll say that you said they "need" a position because that is the sum of your statements.